F-35B/C - Naval Air Discussions (USN & USMC)

[gf0012-aust]

I haven't come across any info on direct satellite linkage for MADL, so my guess would be that the F-35 must be at an altitude such that it is within the RF horizon of the shipborne MADL antenna to maintain "LOS"...

I think that it can be repeated across nodes

every JSF is in effect a battlespace node depending on the link. then there are the battlespace hubs sitting on awacs and G550's etc....

there's also the issue that anything with Link16 and Link22 can also be part of that combat picture - and Link22 will be on platforms across land sea and air....

 

[gf0012-aust]

Has the ADF made overtures to plan for NIFC-CA considering our expanding capabilities and our stated aim to take part in large scale amphibious ops with the USN?
Second, will the E2D always be needed to provide the link between the F35s other gen 4 assets and the seaborne commanders? The way I interpret the current thinking there appears to be an enduring need for this halfway house.

and.....

Lockheed Martin: F-35/NIFC-CA Live Fire Test In 2018; LRASM Flight Tests This Year

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/22/lo...230426561&mc_cid=379c677597&mc_eid=d7b25005c6

 

[ASSAIL]

I've been trying to reconcile the various networks, over the last day from a base of superficial knowledge to greater understanding hence my raft of questions.
The attached article shone some light on the matter.

https://defensesystems.com/articles/2016/10/12/cec.aspx?m=2

I guess the final question re the Australian F35s is, has there been an intention to fit the MADL antennae as a matter of course or is this still to be decided.

PS really don't understand the rationale behind the RNs lack of CEC unless the integration of Brit CMS weapons and sensors proved to be a bridge too far in either cost or complexity or both.

 

[r3mu511]

JAnother possibility.. A distant F-35 can pass off the data to another F-35 closer to he ship.

yes, with more nodes in the network, so long as the relay hop between adjacent nodes is within the RF horizon for each individual relay pair, you can trace a route from the most distant node back to the ship even if the most distant node is not directly within the RF horizon of the ship's antenna (cf. similar network node hops used with CEC DDS)...

 

[gf0012-aust]

yes, with more nodes in the network, so long as the relay hop between adjacent nodes is within the RF horizon for each individual relay pair, you can trace a route from the most distant node back to the ship even if the most distant node is not directly within the RF horizon of the ship's antenna (cf. similar network node hops used with CEC DDS)...

they can also bounce indirectly.

remember that awacs and their ilk (and not just air) also can act as a repeater

 

[Boagrius]

yes, with more nodes in the network, so long as the relay hop between adjacent nodes is within the RF horizon for each individual relay pair, you can trace a route from the most distant node back to the ship even if the most distant node is not directly within the RF horizon of the ship's antenna (cf. similar network node hops used with CEC DDS)...

Strikes me as a nice example of just how different 5th gen CONOPS are likely to become going forward. Eg. with a highly directional DL like MADL, your F35's on BARCAP could be feeding data from others operating behind enemy lines to the next package on its way into Red team airspace, picket ships around a CVN or even Patriot et al.

Given inevitable bandwidth limitations, the question of "who should relay what data to whom, and when" might be a hot topic going forward(?)

 

[gf0012-aust]

in the spirit of the prev discussions around TADL....

Tactical data system almost ready for prime time

Link22 becomes interesting for ADF as eventually it will appear in some of our air and sea assets

 

[ADMk2]

I've been trying to reconcile the various networks, over the last day from a base of superficial knowledge to greater understanding hence my raft of questions.
The attached article shone some light on the matter.

https://defensesystems.com/articles/2016/10/12/cec.aspx?m=2

I guess the final question re the Australian F35s is, has there been an intention to fit the MADL antennae as a matter of course or is this still to be decided.

PS really don't understand the rationale behind the RNs lack of CEC unless the integration of Brit CMS weapons and sensors proved to be a bridge too far in either cost or complexity or both.

Australian F-35A's will most definitely come with MADL. It is key to their future networking capability in LO configurations, however they will have Link 16 as well.

However whether other major ADF platforms gain MADL as well, is a different kettle of fish...

 

[gf0012-aust]

However whether other major ADF platforms gain MADL as well, is a different kettle of fish...

you'd have to punt on the geek planes getting up

 

[ADMk2]

you'd have to punt on the geek planes getting up

I think BACN will be the eventual solution. Too many different standards to replace simultaneously. Legacy waveforms will always be ADF's bugbear as replacing everything in one go just never seems to happen and operations tend to throw things further askew, because the TIC can't wait for formal acquisition processes to run their course...

Edit: And I susoect Northrop Grumman will be doubly happy when it does...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Edit: And I susoect Northrop Grumman will be doubly happy when it does...

they've certainly geared up for long term work in Oz. when I started dealing with them they had half a dozen people here - and that included guests with passports.

patience has been a virtue for them....

 

[SpudmanWP]

Australian F-35A's will most definitely come with MADL...

It has been stated by many in the program and from LM. Every F-35, whether sold in the US, to a Partner, or through an FMS deal will be identical in its baseline config. This included all basic hardware like the CNI (comms, nav, MADL, etc), radar, computer, EOTS, EODAS, stealth coatings, etc. There are additional items that any customer can get like brake chute, refueling probe on the A model, etc. Then there are also other items that will be exclusive to US jets but these are crypto/IFF related.

 

[SpazSinbad]

Not certain whether other countries can have the Israeli ADIR black box interface installed for own purposes during LM manufacture; however Israel has that mod.

"...last April Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) said that it was producing a C4I system specific to the F-35I. It would use generic communications infrastructure based on the latest software-defined radios, and be fully embedded into the aircraft’s integrated avionics system. It would provide “advanced processing capabilities with relative indep-endence of the aircraft manufacturer,” IAI continued. It was part of a wider drive to help the Israeli Air Force (IAF) “rapidly field networked applications that interface with core services over proprietary protocols,” the company added.

The system will effectively enable the Israeli Air Force (IAF) to self-integrate indigenous weapons systems such as the Derby and Python AAMs; Spice precision-guided bombs; and Litening targeting pod...."

Israel’s First F-35 Ceremonially Rolled Out | Defense News: Aviation International News
22 Jun 2016
____________________________

"...some observers say Israel is the only country whose variant is unique. According to Lockheed Martin spokesperson Eric Schnaible, the company modified the F-35 for Israel in three main areas: command, control, communications, computers, and intelligence (C4I), electronic warfare, and weapons integration.

Initially, the US refused to allow Israeli modifications to the F-35. The compromise reached involved not changing anything inside the aircraft, but allowing the Israelis to add capabilities on top of the existing infrastructure.

State-run Israel Aerospace Industries, for example, is working on a C4I overlay for the F-35, with Lockheed Martin. “It’s open architecture, which sits on the F-35’s central system, much like an application on your iPhone,” Benni Cohen, general manager of IAI’s Lahav Division, told Defense News last year.

“The F-35 Adir aircraft has also been provisioned to allow updates to EW and weapons interfaces,” Schnaible said. “The design of aircraft installations, power, and cooling have been modified to provide IAF the ability to incorporate indigenous weapons.”..."

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2017/April 2017/The-Israeli-F-35s.aspx April 2017

 

[gf0012-aust]

I just spent 4 years working on software defined radio, roip and voip, maybe this old dinosaur can do something new and exciting

I imagine the Sings will be high in the queue for any israeli mods considering how close they share things...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Japan based B's engaged in bombing Ex over Sth Korea

U.S. Stealth Fighters Carry Out Precision Bombing Drill In Korea

 

[gf0012-aust]

the "anything but" brigade will be spitting chips.....

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/28/da...230391997&mc_cid=5811878a25&mc_eid=802226e4dd

 

[ADMk2]

Looks like another of the 'ABJ's favourite 'toys' is about to be taken away with 6x internal AMRAAM or 'potentially' full internal A2G stores remaining useable with 4x missiles on the bay doors, being pushed ahead in the requirements priority list...

Looks like they are thinking about an MER on the internal bay door, or perhaps a second rail on the outer door (existing rail is on the inner door) with NO AMRAAM changes required and air to ground stores capability remaining useable...

Can't wait to see if they can pull it off. Seeing F-35's taking off with 8x SBD II / SPEAR 3 and 4x AMRAAM will be a sight so to speak, or rather 'won't' be a sight...

Air Force Magazine

 

[Boagrius]

Looks like another of the 'ABJ's favourite 'toys' is about to be taken away with 6x internal AMRAAM or 'potentially' full internal A2G stores remaining useable with 4x missiles on the bay doors, being pushed ahead in the requirements priority list...

Looks like they are thinking about an MER on the internal bay door, or perhaps a second rail on the outer door (existing rail is on the inner door) with NO AMRAAM changes required and air to ground stores capability remaining useable...

Can't wait to see if they can pull it off. Seeing F-35's taking off with 8x SBD II / SPEAR 3 and 4x AMRAAM will be a sight so to speak, or rather 'won't' be a sight...

Air Force Magazine

...and that picture is only likely to get prettier with a weapon like SACM. If Raytheon follow the philosophy of LM's Cuda (where two of them fit in every AMRAAM slot), you're looking at ~4 x SACM + ~4 x AMRAAM in the air to air role - all carried internally. Nothing to sneeze at that's for sure...

 

[gf0012-aust]

USMC performs weapons hot load on F35B

http://www.marines.mil/News/News-Di...of-concept-first-hot-load-of-gbu-32-on-f-35b/

 

[SpazSinbad]

BAE story about their refurbished CVF/F-35B simulator at Warton:

http://www.baesystems.com/en/articl...imulator-in-preparation-for-trials-on-carrier

Pilots begin flights in new F-35 Lightning II simulator Published on Mar 29, 2017

"A world-leading flight engineering simulator created by BAE Systems is ready to be “flown” by F-35 Lightning II pilots for the first time as they prepare for flight trials on the UK’s new Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carrier next year."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPcvOGZ-hY