F-35 Program - General Discussion

Yep the F-35 DEATH SPIRAL (as touted by some) is truly impressive. However the endless US Budget UPS & downs leave me bamboozled. Tell me when it is over. :)
Yes, its mind boggling to say the least, our last regime damn near killed me? (yes, I did have a heart-attack and bypass), well it could have been all that good food?? Anyway, the budget is up for now, and we are building F-35s, that is indeed exciting!

I was very impressed to see a couple of A models last summer at the Scott AFB open house, while I was separated by a rope, it was the 2 Air Force SP's with M-16s that kept me from asking to "touch it"? The finish almost looks organic its so "SLICK"...

the naysayers continue to do all they can to disrupt this fragile process, its indeed sad to those who love freedom and realize it must be defended 24/7.

I'm hoping the F-35 will get a "Demo Team" next year like the Raptor, I'd love to see it fly, and sadly I've missed that so far.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Air power Australia has been quiet as well about the f35
Jeez don't encourage them. The quieter they remain the better. I think that they have lost whatever credibility that they have ever had.
Absolutely and their site was often referenced by the anti-F-35 herd here in Canada. There has been a major drop off by the Canadian lefturd crowd using them as a poison well.
John, it's not just the left wing crowd but, those who jump on the band wagon without actually bothering to undertake any basic research. I notice it in some ex services organisations with people who are not left wingers by any stretch of the imagination. I would also appreciate you not calling left wingers turds or $hits because that is insulting and unfair to turds and $hits.
 
Jeez don't encourage them. The quieter they remain the better. I think that they have lost whatever credibility that they have ever had.

John, it's not just the left wing crowd but, those who jump on the band wagon without actually bothering to undertake any basic research. I notice it in some ex services organisations with people who are not left wingers by any stretch of the imagination. I would also appreciate you not calling left wingers turds or $hits because that is insulting and unfair to turds and $hits.
Amen! To all of thar Brother!
 

SpazSinbad

Active Member
It is a pity that a lot of material about the F-35 HMDS III and earlier iterations of same is in recent posts in the RAAF forum but so be it. Just to drag that topic here will be done with this post. SPOT THE ERRORS (refer to aforementioned sub forum etc.). Otherwise some good material about the HELMUT (that is how an Oz stenographer spelt helmet in transcribing a Senate Inquiry transcript and I like it - "THAT is not a helmet - this is a HELMUTT!" :) )

F-35: Under the Helmet of the World's Most Advanced Fighter - Avionics

This next article has some really good details about FUSION when an F-35 is on the game:

F-35: Is The Trillion-Dollar Fighter Finally Worth It?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I

This next article has some really good details about FUSION when an F-35 is on the game:

F-35: Is The Trillion-Dollar Fighter Finally Worth It?
From my own POV that fusion is the F-35's most potent capability; not it's gun, bombs, missiles, even it's low observability etc. The fusion and the ability to disseminate / receive targeting data to / from multiple other platforms, BLOS (beyond line of sight) is an absolute game changer and that is what a lot of people don't understand. Air Power Australia and the the other nay sayers don't even recognise the concept, which has been staring them in the face for about the last two years in the open media.
 

SpazSinbad

Active Member
I agree however I reckon the obvious has been obvious for more than two years in the open media - for how long I would have to research it - if required. Early on SLDinfo.com had some great info/white papers about such matters, however that website has degenerated over the last many years and I seldom go there because their one line paragraph content is unreadable and badly edited/written/SHAPED anyway. IF they still have these white papers (usually provided by LM) then these are very worth reading.... LINKS could be provided if available however I do not want to bore people unnecessarily (but WILL BORE THEM IF REQ'D). HAVE INFO - WILL BORE. Here ye go laddies & generalmen - just pick the F-35 whities: Whitepapers Archive - Second Line of Defense
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I agree however I reckon the obvious has been obvious for more than two years in the open media - for how long I would have to research it - if required. Early on SLDinfo.com had some great info/white papers about such matters, however that website has degenerated over the last many years and I seldom go there because their one line paragraph content is unreadable and badly edited/written/SHAPED anyway. IF they still have these white papers (usually provided by LM) then these are very worth reading.... LINKS could be provided if available however I do not want to bore people unnecessarily (but WILL BORE THEM IF REQ'D). HAVE INFO - WILL BORE. Here ye go laddies & generalmen - just pick the F-35 whities: Whitepapers Archive - Second Line of Defense
Agree. I use them as a resource as well and recently they've undergone a further change dumbing it down, which is a real shame.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
APA still being discussed....

I thought their relevance was buried at the Swanbank Landfill.
Cobber, can't do that because some poor sod would have to fill out an environmental impact statement. Also would be an insult to the memory of iconic F-111. :D
 

SpazSinbad

Active Member
Further to info about how the F-35 'may be flown' in ACM/Airshows I found this comparison between an F-16 & F-35 flight control laws with pilot input differences enlightening. Reading between the lines I grok that an F-35 pilot needs to FLY the aircraft rather than just slam the controls around as in an F-16 apparently (I have to guess because I've not flown either aircraft - reading is my game these days). Out of the SHADOWS Frank Crébas, May 2018 COMBAT Aircraft
"...Dogfighting in the F-35
"...The F-16 is a relatively small and lightweight fighter; this meant we had great sustained high-speed turning performance and simple handling characteristics. The flight control laws were designed in such a way that the pilot can simply pull back on the stick as hard as he or she wants and the aircraft will give its maximum performance. On the flip side, we’ve always had to make do with limited fuel, limited payload and sluggish slow-speed maneuverability due to flight control limitations.

‘The F-35 is a very different aircraft, and it took pilots a while to adjust and figure out how to max-perform it. What didn’t help is that until about 18 months ago we were restricted in envelope, which meant we couldn’t pull as much g as we wanted to, nor fly with high-alpha. It was an eye-opener for all of us when those restrictions were lifted and we finally got to see the full potential. Actually, it was an eye-opener for a lot of adversary pilots as well.’ The F-35 is far larger than the F-16, and it carries twice as much fuel and three times the payload. ‘Consequently, the F-35 loses energy a bit faster than the F-16 at higher speeds,’ continues Knight. ‘But the slow-speed handling is amazing. The F-35 pilot has the option to continuously point the nose at the adversary, even at ridiculously slow speeds, which is a great capability to have in combination with high off-boresight missiles and a helmet-mounted sight. You need to be careful maneuvering the aircraft at higher speeds, because if you keep pulling back on the stick the aircraft will give you as much alpha as it can, but it will bleed a lot of energy in the process. It’s up to the pilot to recognize when to try to maintain airspeed and energy and when to give that away to prosecute with missiles or guns. I typically tell new pilots that the F-35 sits somewhere in between the F-16 and F/A-18 when it comes to within visual range maneuvering.’..." Combat Aircraft Magazine May 2018 Vol.19 No.5
 

John Newman

The Bunker Group
Defence One is reporting all F-35s are grounded for inspection of engine fuel tubes, this is related to the recent crash in the US.

BREAKING: DoD grounds all F-35s; Army rearms for great-power war; Hurricanes getting less predictable; Transparent armor; and just a bit more...
Here's a report from Flightglobal:

Worldwide F-35 fleet grounded temporarily for inspections related to crash

The relevant quote is:

If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status,” the JPO says in a statement. “Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours.”

The way that reads to me is that it would appear they have identified a 'known faulty batch of fuel tubes' because they talk about 'known good fuel tubes' that are already installed.

Anyway, sounds like the problem has been identified and is an easy fix.

Cheers,
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Here's a report from Flightglobal:

Worldwide F-35 fleet grounded temporarily for inspections related to crash

The relevant quote is:

If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status,” the JPO says in a statement. “Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours.”

The way that reads to me is that it would appear they have identified a 'known faulty batch of fuel tubes' because they talk about 'known good fuel tubes' that are already installed.

Anyway, sounds like the problem has been identified and is an easy fix.

Cheers,

A prudent decision to ground the F35 after this the first crash and complete right off of the aircraft.

Given the number of F35's built ( A,B,and C ) and flight hours flown I wonder how this accident record compares to other fighter aircraft over the decades.
The press seem to love to hate this aircraft and program so I'd be interested as to how the F35 compares to say the Teen series of fighters or the F22 or maybe the European offerings at a similar stage of development.

Regards S
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The Flight Global article mentions “known good fuel tubes”. This seems to indicate that the original fuel tube design needed improvement or they were manufactured incorrectly. Perhaps PW should have mandated a replacement which may have saved a $100 million loss.

As for other jets, I doubt the F-35 is any different wrt to losses, probably better. Flight Global also reported the second crash landing of a F-22 in 2018. The F-35 fleet at twice the size has had one crash albeit a total loss.
 
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SpazSinbad

Active Member
'Stampede' I'm not going to randomly get other aircraft statistics for you - you can google it probably - however there have been FIVE Class A F-35 variant mishaps so far: two engine fires, one bomb bay fire, one debris in engine in flight and the crash.
 
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