A mate of mine served in one of the Guards regiments that were posted there and he basically said that their division had one job and one job only, to beat the Soviet horde to the Fulda gap and stall them for 90 minutes. That's a lot of Chieftains in bits...
F-35 Program - General Discussion
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Here's a link to Defence One's analysis of F-35 pricing.
The Price of an F-35 Was Already Falling. Can Trump Drive it Lower? - Defense One
The Price of an F-35 Was Already Falling. Can Trump Drive it Lower? - Defense One
Trump claims victory. LM happy to accommodate him.
Reports: Trump Says He's Cut $600 Million From F-35 Costs | DoD Buzz
Reports: Trump Says He’s Cut $600 Million From F-35 Costs
“I appreciate Lockheed Martin for being so responsive,” Trump reportedly said, according to the outlet.
“We appreciate President Trump’s comments this morning on the positive progress we’ve made on the F-35 program,” they said. “We share his commitment to delivering this critical capability for our men and women in uniform at the lowest possible cost to taxpayers.” - LM officials
Reports: Trump Says He's Cut $600 Million From F-35 Costs | DoD Buzz
Reports: Trump Says He’s Cut $600 Million From F-35 Costs
“I appreciate Lockheed Martin for being so responsive,” Trump reportedly said, according to the outlet.
“We appreciate President Trump’s comments this morning on the positive progress we’ve made on the F-35 program,” they said. “We share his commitment to delivering this critical capability for our men and women in uniform at the lowest possible cost to taxpayers.” - LM officials
Who wants to bet they have just retitled a couple of PowerPoints that showed the steadily reducing and predicted duties reductions in cost to let the ego in chief claim responsibility?
I wonder if Trump is actually really that deluded or if its just a show for the moronic deplorables?
I wonder if Trump is actually really that deluded or if its just a show for the moronic deplorables?
cdxbow
Well-Known Member
Both, but primarily for him. It's all about him, his ego, nothing else matters, that's a characteristic of narcissistic sociopaths. We all know the price was falling, LM has done the smart thing and attributed to Mr Trumps intervention. Satisfy the ego if you have to deal with them, and remember they are never, ever wrong.
blueorchid
Member
So all Trump voters are "moronic deplorables" ?
That wasn't stated and watch the one liners. One liners are frowned upon by us Mods
A note to all lets try and keep the feelings the politics to a minimum. It keeps things civil then. Also stops the gnashing of teeth, tearing of hair and rendering of clothing amongst the Mods.
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Not all, bs like that only impresses a certain kind of dumb. There are people who voted for him because they know they personally will be better off, others because they hated Clinton, some because they always vote GOP (no matter who they put up), some because of specific issues that are so over powering that they felt they had no choice but to vote for him even though he may disgust them.
The moronic deplorables are a subset of voters who are in general dumb, lazy (as in don't or can't think very deeply) and easily impressed with media stunts etc. so it makes sense for Trump to grandstand on certain issues as it retains the votes of these easily impressed individuals. The moronic deplorables would just as likely voted for Clinton if she had been a man and said the "right things" and probably did vote for Bill because of his sexual indiscretions (probably helped Trump too).
There are also morons on the left, the idiots who supported Sanders and hated Hillary so much they fought against her even after Bernie pulled out and then wondered how Trump won. There are of course also the religious nut bags who will vote for anyone who says they are a Christian (but not Catholic), anti abortion, anti gay, white and male, no matter how many wives they've cheated on and left for younger women.
Yep I'm judgemental, but then again considering where the world is heading because of ignorant people in the handful of countries with true representational democracy, I think that's fair enough.
On the other hand, among the general public you get articles that talk about how the F-35 costs as much as $337 million each etc. So while costs were going to come down anyway, news that the cost really is going down can be nothing but positive. It's one of those things where the informed knew it was going to happen anyway, just that Trump wants his name on it, while the less informed might at least be more receptive to it hearing that it's getting cheaper.
No Chieftains at Fulda. A pure US Army/Bundeswehr show (with probably some french reinforcements thrown in).
The 70s are actually a good example of a time were the west faced alot of really good, often superior and more numerous equipment compared to the scare mongering of these days where F-35s are easy prey for SUs and Burkes to supermissiles...
Boagrius
Well-Known Member
F35 appears to be performing well at Red Flag lately:
Red Flag gives F-35A its toughest test yet
The 15:1 stat is a bit spurious without context but it all sounds encouraging. A sign of things to come I suspect!
Red Flag gives F-35A its toughest test yet
The 15:1 stat is a bit spurious without context but it all sounds encouraging. A sign of things to come I suspect!
John Newman
The Bunker Group
And some other good news, pricing on LRIP 10 has been released:
Pentagon, Lockheed reach agreement on F-35 contract for 90 jets
A couple of relevant paragraphs:
The contract, known as Low Rate-Initial Production lot 10 (LRIP 10), covers production for 90 of the stealth fighters. The Pentagon says the cost per plane represents more than a 60 percent price decrease for the conventional-takeoff-and-landing F-35A variant since the first LRIP contract.
For LRIP 10, the per-plane price of an F-35A model sits at $94.6 million (7.3% reduction from LRIP 9), an F-35B jump-jet model used by the U.S. Marine Corps sits at $122.8 million (6.7% reduction from LRIP 9), and an F-35C carrier version is at $121.8 million (7.9% reduction from LRIP 9).
As befits the largest overall customer for the stealth fighter, the U.S. Air Force makes up the majority of the procurement in this lot, but it also features an increasing number of international customers. Deliveries from this lot will begin in early 2018. Overall, the lot is made up of:
• 44 F-35A for the U.S. Air Force
• 9 F-35B for the U.S. Marine Corps
• 2 F-35C for the U.S. Navy
• 3 F-35B for UK
• 6 F-35A for Norway
• 8 F-35A for Australia
• 2 F-35A for Turkey
• 4 F-35A for Japan
• 6 F-35A for Israel
• 6 F-35A for South Korea
All good news, an F-35A is now $94.6m, and the prospect of hitting that "$85m" per F-35A in the next few years is certainly looking more like a reality too as production ramps up!!
Pentagon, Lockheed reach agreement on F-35 contract for 90 jets
A couple of relevant paragraphs:
The contract, known as Low Rate-Initial Production lot 10 (LRIP 10), covers production for 90 of the stealth fighters. The Pentagon says the cost per plane represents more than a 60 percent price decrease for the conventional-takeoff-and-landing F-35A variant since the first LRIP contract.
For LRIP 10, the per-plane price of an F-35A model sits at $94.6 million (7.3% reduction from LRIP 9), an F-35B jump-jet model used by the U.S. Marine Corps sits at $122.8 million (6.7% reduction from LRIP 9), and an F-35C carrier version is at $121.8 million (7.9% reduction from LRIP 9).
As befits the largest overall customer for the stealth fighter, the U.S. Air Force makes up the majority of the procurement in this lot, but it also features an increasing number of international customers. Deliveries from this lot will begin in early 2018. Overall, the lot is made up of:
• 44 F-35A for the U.S. Air Force
• 9 F-35B for the U.S. Marine Corps
• 2 F-35C for the U.S. Navy
• 3 F-35B for UK
• 6 F-35A for Norway
• 8 F-35A for Australia
• 2 F-35A for Turkey
• 4 F-35A for Japan
• 6 F-35A for Israel
• 6 F-35A for South Korea
All good news, an F-35A is now $94.6m, and the prospect of hitting that "$85m" per F-35A in the next few years is certainly looking more like a reality too as production ramps up!!
2-3 years for new-build fighter aircraft deliveries from contract signing is the usual timeframe, depending on the orders and build rate obviously...
If they ordered F-35 tomorrow, there would most likely be RCAF F-35's flying in late 2019 and they would be full Block 3F standard, with future Block 4 upgrades well and truly in train.
The 'stopgap' is a rubbish excuse by Trudeau to avoid buying the best capability he can for his money, because he made an issue out of it for domestic political reasons, based on the usual lies and falsehoods.
As GF said, if Shornets MUST be acquired, then a good portion of them should be Growlers to at least keep Canada somewhat 'in the game' capability-wise.
Flying a handful of Shornets in 15-20 years time will most definitely be tokenism and that is not something that Canada has been known for historically.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Mate, agree 100%
And with our Canadian cousins also being so 'budget' conscious, they could do even better by not proceeding with the 18 'interim' Super Hornets, they could also suspend any further spend on 'extending' the lives of the Classic Hornet fleet too (which is reported to still be good till around the mid 2020's).
The only thing stopping Canada from making the 'right' choice (F-35A) and also at the 'right' price, is political stupidity!!
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Yep, LRIP 10, will be delivered during 2018.
Behind the USAF (44) and the USMC (9), the RAAF has the next largest number of airframes being produced from this lot, eight (8) F-35A.
Currently the RAAF has six (6) of its eight (8) centre fuselages (from LRIP 10) in production at NG's Palmdale facility, see below:
Centre fuselages for next RAAF F-35s in production | Australian Aviation
The next RAAF centre fuselage (AU-3), is due at the LM assembly line in March this year (2017) and soon to be followed by another two in April, and from what I understand, all eight LRIP 10 F-35A's for the RAAF will be delivered by end 2018.
The RAAF's delivery schedule for the current 'approved' 72 airframes is reported to be as follows:
* 2 – (2014) – LRIP 6 - already delivered
* 8 – (2018) – LRIP 10
* 8 – (2019)
* 15 – (2020)
* 15 – (2021)
* 15 – (2022)
* 9 – (2023)
So how soon could Canada received delivery of F-35A?
If the door is not yet shut on LRIP 11 production slots, then possibly during 2019.
But you would reasonably expect if Canada wanted some 'initial' airframes to start with, then surely there is FRP 1 (delivery 2020), that would certainly seem achievable.
Regardless of 2019-20 as a starting point for Canadian deliveries (if their politicians can ever extract their heads from their arses), then it is not unreasonable to assume that all of Canada's F-35A's could easily be delivered prior to 2025.
Again, only if Canadian politicians can remove their heads from the bums!!
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
When you can figure out how to extract a Canadian Liberal's head from his or her's sunshine starved orifice then perhaps you can talk about fast jets. Unfortunately Canada will still end up with 18 SH (not Growlers) which will be next to useless in 15 years or less and cost almost as much as F-35s, maybe more if they are ASHs.:mad3
John Newman
The Bunker Group
John,
When I can finally discover a way to get Australian politicians heads out of their bums, I'll let you know how to do it too, ok??
Fortunately as you know, at least the Aussie politicians are on the same page when it comes to the F-35, they don't agree on much, but they all appear to at least agree on that!!
I don't know how you will ever do it, but first step would be to get Canadian politicians to 'agree' on defence/policy/expenditure and defence acquisitions.
Until then, defence in Canada appears to be too much of a political 'football'.
Cheers,
Excluding a certain Green's Senator that continues to post misinformation about the program even though he was part of the recent inquiry.