Countering DU Rounds

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Besides Korean peninsula I can't come up with any potential tank battles (and the Chinese won't allow that, anyway). Or want to see Moscow from the hatch of your tank next year? Lots of conflict zones are in mountains, swamps and other tank-unfriendly areas.
Hmmm, norther africa, middle east (Especially Israel and it's neighbours but also Shiite/Sunni neighbours), Pakistan-India, Russia vs Georgia, Korea, Russia-some minor former Sovjet State like Georgia, Balkans,...

# From a Western standpoint - why should a defender put his forces in harm's way in an open field battle against my hightech forces? Talking about the use of state-of-the-art equipment, the (Western) high-tech power will always be the invader (except if Mexico wants to re-incorporate Texas). Just let me come. I have to win, he just has to abide.
Maybe because he doesn't want his civilians to suffer from duggin in in the cities. Maybe because it will not always be the US.
Or if weather restricts the ability of using air power. This for example happened during Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom. There the good equipped ground forces (inlcuding tanks) made the difference and not air power.

Kosovo is another example. The west hesitated to enter with ground forces due to fear of casualties. There is no doubt that western forces could have punched the serbs into the ground but with how many casualties.
Nearly no one can hope of repulsing a US attack but one can make it as costly as possible. And that includes using all kinds of terrain not only cities.

# Remember Hannibal. Victory after victory in the open field. Failed to assault the walls of Rome. Lost in the end. You can't keep out of cities in the end.
You don't really want to compare Hannibals incursion with some ten thousand men into Italy with a modern mechanized combined arms campaign, don't you?
I am talking about a massive modern army invading a country. This army is going to maneuver freely without an enemy confronting them in the open.

As I said before.
You loose your airfields.
You loose your loose your supply lines.
You loose your communication.

And while this is happening the enemy is getting stronger every day you sit in your cities while you get weaker.
 

Chrom

New Member
Thats the bugger of it Waylander, everyone seems to think that we are heading into a era that all conflicts will be small scale operations only and the heavies are on their way out, but the trend seems to be that everyone is keeping what they have and improving/upgrading them.It will be just a matter of time before we see two sizable forces going at it and they will need their tanks.
While i cant say what i disagree with you, still i have my doubts. Basically, it is based on "Generals always prepare for past wars...". So all these tank hordes maintained by big militaries might be well such ill-prepare for past wars...

On the other hand, most important points are almost always accessible by tanks. Supply lines, big cities, airfields, etc. Basically almost every major installation must be supplied by land-based transports and as such accessible by tanks (or at least can be blockaded by tanks).
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
And is it not as if the west as well as the east hasn't reduced it's tank forces with the end of cold war.
There is no idea of a Fulda Gap scenario happening soon.

I totally agree with the idea of reducing all this AT-equipment (not only tanks) but they defenitely have their role.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
While i cant say what i disagree with you, still i have my doubts. Basically, it is based on "Generals always prepare for past wars...". So all these tank hordes maintained by big militaries might be well such ill-prepare for past wars...

On the other hand, most important points are almost always accessible by tanks. Supply lines, big cities, airfields, etc. Basically almost every major installation must be supplied by land-based transports and as such accessible by tanks (or at least can be blockaded by tanks).
I do agree that we do not need post cold war ere amounts of MBT staged about, but we still need to have 3-4 what we deem heavy mechanized divisions in our order of battle, augumented by lighter divisions to handle quick reactionary type scenarios.
 
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