Comparing PLAN to Indian Navy

[kams]

Good question. Buying second hand Sea harriers from the UK would complicate things a bit... to start with (i) are the UK Sea Harriers compatible with Israeli Python/Derby or would they need a new radar ? (ii) why bother at all to modernize IN Harriers if you can have 18 modern UK Sea Harriers (iii) would Amraams and Asraams or AIM-9M be transferred ?
Quite a good deal of questions to take into account before buying those Sea Harriers second hand.

cheers

Here is a news report answering our question regarding IN acquiring British Sea Harriers. Negotiations are ongoing to acquire 8 Harriers without radar and missiles. I presume they will be upgraded inlune with IN's Harriers - ELTA radar and Derby BVR missile. It seems IN also wants to acquire 18 Hawk -100 series AJT.

The Indian Navy is considering purchasing 18 Hawk 100-series advanced jet trainers (AJT) from the British defence corp. BAE Systems according to aerospace journal Flight International.

Furthermore the Navy is continuing talks with the British Government over the possible acquisition of 8 ex-UK Royal Navy BAE Sea Harrier FA2 fighter jets.

Around 30 Indian navy pilots recently underwent pilot training at US facilities using the services Boeing/BAE T-45 Goshawk trainers - developments of the Hawk - under a collaborative agreement.

The service hopes to acquire 18 new trainers for in-country instruction ahead of operations using its RSK MiG 29K carrier-borne fighters and Sea Harrier FRS51's.

The latter are to undergo modernization by Indian Aerospace Giant Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), including the integration of Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multimode radar and Rafael Derby beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles.

The surplus FA2's are to be delivered without the radars or air-to-air missiles.

"BAE Systems is aware that the Indian Navy has a requirement for an advanced jet trainer and with the Hawk AJT recently being selected for the Indian Air Force we believe the trainer is well placed to meet their requirements," the company says.

BAE won a $1.7 billion contract in early 2004 to supply the Indian Air Force with 66 Hawk 132Y trainers. The first 24 of which will be manufactured in the United Kingdom and delivered by 2008 end, while the rest are to be built by HAL and inducted into the Air Force between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/08/08/208282/HAL+looks+to+collaboration.html

 

[chinawhite]

Dongfeng manages his own site by his own way

And why dont you go to where i sourced the information? :roll

Those archives wuoldn't help you beocuse there is no pictures of other Ludas

I have doubt about that

------------------------------

When you get DF's reply, ill then respond to you again. If not, stop pestering me

 

[Gollevainen]

And why dont you go to where i sourced the information?

Mean to sinodefence's Luda site?? Been there. The part that you quoted states quite loosely that most Ludas will be modernised, but even the same site reports that only four Ludas are modernised. Sofar there is no indications that others would follow and I doupt there is going to be any new Ludas fitted with new systems.

But Sinodefence.com isen't the only information source for chinese navy and in fact far more respectfull and proffesional refferences, mainly Weyer's flottentaschenbuch 2005-2007 states exactly what I am...

I have doubt about that

You can have doupts, none is taken away that fundamental right of yours. But don't expect others to agree with you if you proclaim false information.

But don't make fool of yourself by insisting on rumours not true just becouse I state othervice...

When you get DF's reply, ill then respond to you again. If not, stop pestering me

Pestering you? This is internet forum where people post and others reply to it. If you wish not to have any comments of your postings then perhaps you should find other arenas to express yourself. If it makes you happy I can ask Df about the issue, but I know the awnser right now so it doesen't going to help you. ONLY 4 LUDAS HAVE BEEN MODERNISED!

 

[chinawhite]

This is the final post. If you do not bring a response from DF next time, your going on my ignore list

Mean to sinodefence's Luda site?? Been there. The part that you quoted states quite loosely that most Ludas will be modernised

If my english skills are not deciveing me, I swear to god it said "have been"

I qouted

Since the late 1990s, the PLA Navy have been upgrading its Type 051 fleet with more advanced weapon suites. By 2004 most of these ships have been upgraded to the Type 051G standard.

I do not see a "will" in there

But Sinodefence.com isen't the only information source for chinese navy Weyer's flottentaschenbuch 2005-2007

Since i dont know how to read german or finnish, i cannot pass judgment on that source. It is a annualy updated book, it still makes it more reliable than a site which can be updated regulary?.

What i found out about the book is it was published in augest 2005, DF site was updated in December 05. This is misleading because the information being published in the book is stagnant for the course of the publication or pre-publication which means the information there is as old as any other web page i can find

Does the book give mention of the Type 51C entering user trials?. If not, that means a common forum user knows more about information published by that book.

All you have to do is get a reply from DF

This is internet forum where people post and others reply to it.

And that changes people react to people annoying them?

If a forum member does not want to talk to another member its completly acceptable

 

[Gollevainen]

This is the final post. If you do not bring a response from DF next time, your going on my ignore list

You can almoust see me shiwering...

If my english skills are not deciveing me, I swear to god it said "have been"

Well as that exact quote doesen't make no sense in the light of available information, I assume he meant to say "will" but I will ask him about this..

Since i dont know how to read german or finnish, i cannot pass judgment on that source. It is a annualy updated book, it still makes it more reliable than a site which can be updated regulary?.

It's Germans publication but despite it's name its dual language english/germany book.

What i found out about the book is it was published in augest 2005, DF site was updated in December 05. This is misleading because the information being published in the book is stagnant for the course of the publication or pre-publication which means the information there is as old as any other web page i can find

But between these 4 months no miracles happened. The only fact supporting our stuborness is the DFs approximate saying and even that very same page listes the modernised vessels, 109, 110, 165 and 166. If there were any more that DF would know about why didn't he mentioned them specifically in the paragrahp descriping different version of the ships?

If a forum member does not want to talk to another member its completly acceptable

Yeas, but when the same member have claimed something not true and others are correcting him, and if the same member is then saying he doesen't want to talk about the matter, it's called avoiding the responsibility...

All you have to do is get a reply from DF

I will, no need to worry about that. But knowing DFs visiting rate in SDF it may take a while when I can get his awnser to you. And as you boasted about putting me to your ignore list, shall I give your name to him so that he can reply directly to you???

 

[contedicavour]

Here is a news report answering our question regarding IN acquiring British Sea Harriers. Negotiations are ongoing to acquire 8 Harriers without radar and missiles. I presume they will be upgraded inlune with IN's Harriers - ELTA radar and Derby BVR missile. It seems IN also wants to acquire 18 Hawk -100 series AJT.



http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/08/08/208282/HAL+looks+to+collaboration.html

Thanks a lot, this answers fully my question. Quite a logical deal, these still relatively young ex UK Sea Harriers that can be standardized with those already in the IN inventory.
Regarding the Hawk trainers, I am a bit surprised to see they should be used as advanced trainers for pilots heading for the MIG-29K. Wouldn't the SU-25 have been more appropriate ? Electronics and cockpit configuration seem to me very different between Hawk and the Russian fighter.

cheers

 

[Gollevainen]

Regarding the Hawk trainers, I am a bit surprised to see they should be used as advanced trainers for pilots heading for the MIG-29K. Wouldn't the SU-25 have been more appropriate ? Electronics and cockpit configuration seem to me very different between Hawk and the Russian fighter

According to russian Su-33 pilots the training with Su-25UTG is considered waste of time as the aerodynamical charrasteristics and flying-handelig are completely different. I would imagine the MiG-29K differences towards Su-25UTG are quite similar as Su-33 does. MiG-25UTG or Hawk Trainer will serve as a basic carrieroperation training, more advanced training should be made with Su-33UB or with MiG-29KUB (whats the status with that bytheway??)

 

[contedicavour]

According to russian Su-33 pilots the training with Su-25UTG is considered waste of time as the aerodynamical charrasteristics and flying-handelig are completely different. I would imagine the MiG-29K differences towards Su-25UTG are quite similar as Su-33 does. MiG-25UTG or Hawk Trainer will serve as a basic carrieroperation training, more advanced training should be made with Su-33UB or with MiG-29KUB (whats the status with that bytheway??)

Are the Hawks operable from a carrier with STOBAR configuration ?

cheers

 

[Gollevainen]

No, becouse at the moment only carrier with STOBAr arragment is Admiral Kuznetsov and Russians doesen't use it...

The Indian pilots recieved trianing in USA and altough they cannot practise take-offs from Ski-jumps in there, they still can practise the landings to the deck as STOBAR method uses the same way to recover aircrafts as CATOBAR method. Althoug not the same thing, but indians actually have quite alot expereinces of the take-off methods used in STOBAR as lauching Sea harriers from ski-jump of the Viraat is practically the same thing.

 

[aaaditya]

Are the Hawks operable from a carrier with STOBAR configuration ?

cheers

the t45 goshawk can operate from the aircraft carriers ,but i dont think that the hawks can. i believe that these hawks would be based for shore duty at dabolim naval airbase.

 

[contedicavour]

the t45 goshawk can operate from the aircraft carriers ,but i dont think that the hawks can. i believe that these hawks would be based for shore duty at dabolim naval airbase.

So if I understand correctly, training pilots for landing and take-off operations from the carrier itself ... will be done directly on MIG-29Ks ? Does a 2-seater version MIG-29UB exist for naval service ?

cheers

 

[kams]

So if I understand correctly, training pilots for landing and take-off operations from the carrier itself ... will be done directly on MIG-29Ks ? Does a 2-seater version MIG-29UB exist for naval service ?

cheers

Yes, its called Mig-29KUB . IN has ordered 12 Mig-29K and 4 KUBs. Here is the link to a Mig news release about Mig-29K/KUB.

Mig 29 K/KUB for Indian Navy

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys ,i believe most of the training for the ads and gorshkov crew would be provided on simulatotrs and on ground,however does anyone know wether aircraft carriers carry flight and combat simulators for in house training of the crew when the ship is in transit?

 

[zoolander]

What is the status on the second 956em and are the russians upgrading the first batch of kilo subs?

can the old 956 fire the improved missiles

 

[contedicavour]

What is the status on the second 956em and are the russians upgrading the first batch of kilo subs?

can the old 956 fire the improved missiles

3rd Sovremenny is already in China, the 4th should arrive shortly.
The first 2 Sovs can't fire SA-N-12 (Shtil, 35km range) unless the launchers are modified. Until then, SA-N-7, (Uragan, 25km range).
Same for the SS-N-22 Sunburn, first 2 have 3M80 (110km range), last 2 should have 3M82 (150+km range). Update here should be easier.
No news on first batch of Kilo. PLAN is busy taking delivery of the 8 new improved Kilo.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

hey guys ,i believe most of the training for the ads and gorshkov crew would be provided on simulatotrs and on ground,however does anyone know wether aircraft carriers carry flight and combat simulators for in house training of the crew when the ship is in transit?

I doubt it. Not on the Italian or French carriers anyway. May be on the huge USN Nimits class ? Big-E can answer that one once he's back.

cheers

 

[kams]

What are PLAN's AEW assets? also how do they carry out 'over the horizon' targeting for their long range AShm?

 

[kams]

RDE supplies flight simulator for MiG-29 K carrier aircraft

Huh guess what, Rhein metal AG is supplying the simulators for Mig-29K

mig-29k simulator

 

[wp2000]

What are PLAN's AEW assets? also how do they carry out 'over the horizon' targeting for their long range AShm?

Many, if not most, of those various Y8 based EW planes are for PLAN, and they do use those planes to do OTH attacks.

What interested me was, last year there was a news report about PLAN conducting exercise controlled by an AEWAC plane. But as usual, it did not say which plane, KJ2000 or KJ200. I guess it's a trial test for KJ200.

 

[tphuang]

during coastal operations, the different Y-8 platforms (most notably Y-8J and KJ-200) will be providing targetting data and guidance. There will also be su-30mk2s and JH-7 that could help.

now, if we just stick with the onboard naval arm, then you would have to go with the ka-28s and Z-9Cs for that. Most of the recent DDGs are installed with bandstand radar, that's another way for OTH attacks.

Also, there was a recent order of 15 ka-31s. Although, the future of a PLAN battle group will most likely rely on Y-7 AEW.