Colombia to Spend $235 Mln for Air Force Aircraft

Jambock

New Member
Hi ! I am Brazilian and this is my first participation in this forum, forgives for my english. :D

First Columbian ALX/Super Tucano
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7696/alxdh9.gif

The purchase of 24 Su-30 for the Chavez forced Colombia to change its initial plans of only buying the ALX and modernizing the Kfir.

Now the plans are to buy 24 used fighters (probably F-16) and 2 airplanes AEW (R99A ?)
 

contedicavour

New Member
Hi ! I am Brazilian and this is my first participation in this forum, forgives for my english. :D

First Columbian ALX/Super Tucano
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7696/alxdh9.gif

The purchase of 24 Su-30 for the Chavez forced Colombia to change its initial plans of only buying the ALX and modernizing the Kfir.

Now the plans are to buy 24 used fighters (probably F-16) and 2 airplanes AEW (R99A ?)
Ahhh good news at last ;) Somebody has to wake up to the Venezuelan SU30 threat... My question is whether F16s are the most suitable against long-range 2-engine SU30s... I'd rather go for second hand US ANG F15s with upgrades to ensure AIM120 compatibility. Especially if the SU30s carry R77/AA12 missiles.

Btw since you are Brazilian, which missiles are carried aboard the second hand Mirage 2000 that the Brazilian air force is buying from the French ? Is it just matra 530 + Magic 2 or are we talking Mica active-guidance missiles ?

cheers
 

Jambock

New Member
Ahhh good news at last ;) Somebody has to wake up to the Venezuelan SU30 threat... My question is whether F16s are the most suitable against long-range 2-engine SU30s... I'd rather go for second hand US ANG F15s with upgrades to ensure AIM120 compatibility. Especially if the SU30s carry R77/AA12 missiles.
I don´t see much advantage of the Su-30 for a F-16.

Btw since you are Brazilian, which missiles are carried aboard the second hand Mirage 2000 that the Brazilian air force is buying from the French ? Is it just matra 530 + Magic 2 or are we talking Mica active-guidance missiles ?

cheers
Don´t remember me these cursed Mirage 2000C....:confused:( Magic II and Super 530D.)

The purchase of Mirage 2000C was politics and not technique, the FAB (Brazilian Air Force) never wanted Mirage 2000.

The winner of F-X was the Gripen and when they decided to buy second hand fighters they wanted Gripen or F-16MLU.


Somebody has to wake up to the Venezuelan SU30 threat
.....not only Colombia, waits notice of Brazil in 2007 ;)


Speaking of Venezuela..... First Su-30
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/164/longhornhq3ut5.jpg
 

Ths

Banned Member
Jambock: There is actually a twist to that story.

Ex-President Clinton (or was it Carter) was in Sweden and told the then prime minister Göran Persson how deplorable the USA found it that Sweden was selling Gripen to Brazil (and he as prome minister was peddling death and destruction) - and as the engines are American, the USA could make Sweden regret interfering with the Monroe-doctrin. So much is public record.

My guess is that the F-16 wasn't offered to avoid an (ex-)president being acused of calling the tubby kettle black. So Brazil had to scrummage the junkyards of aviation and ended up in France.
 

contedicavour

New Member
I don´t see much advantage of the Su-30 for a F-16.



Don´t remember me these cursed Mirage 2000C....:confused:( Magic II and Super 530D.)

The purchase of Mirage 2000C was politics and not technique, the FAB (Brazilian Air Force) never wanted Mirage 2000.

The winner of F-X was the Gripen and when they decided to buy second hand fighters they wanted Gripen or F-16MLU.




.....not only Colombia, waits notice of Brazil in 2007 ;)


Speaking of Venezuela..... First Su-30
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/164/longhornhq3ut5.jpg
How about getting Dassault to update your Mirage 2000C to 2000-5 configuration with Mica active guidance missiles ? Besides, the French air force will soon decommission more 2000s as the Rafales enter in service... though it will take a while because the Rafales are replacing Jaguars and F1s before the 2000s.

Against big 2-engine long range SU30s I'm not sure Gripen or F16 MLU are good solutions purely for reasons of range and max payload. Given the size of the airspace of a nation the size of Brazil, I'd have expected Typhoons or SU30s or if no money... then why not second hand Tornado ADVs ?

cheers
 

Ths

Banned Member
The real issue is what the USA will do about Venezuela getting these Russian planes. We are talking about Russia going out of its way to be obnoxious to the USA. I'm just waiting for the hammer to fall - I just don't know how it will fall.
 

Jambock

New Member
Today Embraer delivers 5 Super Tucano to Colombia

EMBRAER DELIVERS FIVE SUPER TUCANO
AIRCRAFT TO COLOMBIA

Event marks the first export of the multi-purpose military aircraft


São José dos Campos, December 7, 2006 – Embraer announces the delivery of the first five Super Tucano aircraft to the Colombian Air Force (FAC) in a ceremony held at Embraer’s Gavião Peixoto Unit in the State of São Paulo, Brazil. The event was attended by the Colombian Air Force official representative, Major General Ricardo Rubianogrott; the Ambassador of Colombia in Brazil, Mario Galofre Cano; Embraer’s Chairman, President and CEO Maurício Botelho and Executive Vice-President for the Defense and Government Market Luiz Carlos Aguiar, among others.

The Colombian Air Force announced an order for 25 Super Tucano light attack aircraft in December 2005, marking the first export deal for this model. They will be deployed on internal security missions and border patrol. A comprehensive logistics training package with a full flight simulator is included. “The Super Tucano is already in operation and is doing very well in the Amazon region,” said Luiz Carlos Aguiar, Embraer Executive Vice-President for Defense and Government Market. “We strongly believe that it will also be very helpful to the Colombian Air Force by enhancing its operational capabilities in that region.”

“After an extensive evaluation, the Colombian Air Force selected the Super Tucano as the most effective option for the important mission of internal security,” said Major General Ricardo Rubianogrott, Colombian Air Force official representative.

About the Super Tucano

Embraer’s Super Tucano is an evolution of the world-known basic trainer Tucano, of which 650 are in operation with approximately 17 air forces worldwide, including Brazil, Colombia, France, Egypt, Kuwait, and the United Kingdom.

The Super Tucano is a multi-purpose military aircraft – trainer, light attack, and weapons familiarization – available in either single or
two-seat versions, and is the perfect combination of the turboprop power with fourth-generation avionics and armament system, making it the next-generation aircraft suitable for air forces around the world to increase their training and operational capabilities.

Its innovations include leading edge in-flight virtual simulation technology for training purposes, a feature that allows student pilots to increase their mission effectiveness, information management and situational awareness skills, coping with the new operational scenarios ahead. The complete customized virtual radar training can be managed through an embedded data-link system that also handles virtual RWR (Radar Warning Receiver), ACMI (Air Combat Maneuver Instrumentation), virtual BVR (Beyond Visual Range) missiles, among other simulation features. The Super Tucano is exceptionally suited for the Information Warfare environment.

Tailored to operate in the most hostile environment – high temperatures, moisture, and dust – it is also performing operational missions as part of the latest and most sophisticated surveillance system in the world, the Amazon Surveillance Program (SIVAM). The aircraft is flying day/night border surveillance missions, pursuing and
intercepting aerial targets engaged in illegal activities. It is capable of receiving and transmitting data through its state-of-the-art data-link systems. Sensor images, including target data, are readily received or relayed to Command and Control Stations, both on the ground or airborne, and to other combat aircraft in the operational theater.

The Super Tucano provides a fourth-generation Human-Machine Interface (HMI) designed to minimize pilot workload through the optimization of all tasks (tracking, interception, surveillance, support, etc.). An outstanding avionics suite that includes HUD (Head-Up Display) with UFCP (Up Front Control Panel), liquid-crystal Active Matrixes Colored Multi-Function Displays (CMFD), Automatic Pilot with embedded mission planning capability, and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR), among others, give the Super Tucano technical capabilities far ahead of its competition. Its NVG Gen III fullycompatible cockpit, as well as the superb ergonomic design, ensures the perfect integration of the modern environment in which the future fighter pilots will fly.

In addition to its jet-like performance provided by a 1,600 SHP, FADEC-controlled PWC PT6A-68C Pratt & Withney turboprop engine, the Super Tucano features such innovations as in-flight virtual simulation for armaments and sensors, an environmental control system designed to assure crew comfort; and an On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS). Whatever the application, zero-zero Martin-Baker MK-10LCX ejection seats featuring a three-mode ejection sequential device have also been incorporated. Cockpit armoring was introduced to ensure crew safety during operational missions.

Embraer spared no efforts to provide the Super Tucano with an armament system that reflects state-of-the-art technology: 1,500 kg (3,307 lb) of external loads distributed among five underwing and fuselage hard points (without jeopardizing its outstanding performance) provides the capability of carrying a wide array of typical fighter weapons – either smart or conventional.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/yy/embraer/fac/super_tucano_2.jpg
http://www.defesanet.com.br/yy/embraer/fac/super_tucano.jpg
http://www.defesanet.com.br/yy/embraer/fac/super_tucano_3.jpg
http://www.defesanet.com.br/yy/embraer/fac/super_tucano_1.jpg
 

Jambock

New Member
My guess is that the F-16 wasn't offered to avoid an (ex-)president being acused of calling the tubby kettle black. So Brazil had to scrummage the junkyards of aviation and ended up in France.
The F-16 was participating of the F-X, but the AIM-120 would be storaged in U.S.A..

How about getting Dassault to update your Mirage 2000C to 2000-5 configuration with Mica active guidance missiles ? Besides, the French air force will soon decommission more 2000s as the Rafales enter in service... though it will take a while because the Rafales are replacing Jaguars and F1s before the 2000s.
As I said the FAB never wanted Mirage 2000, they will fly for more 10 years without great modernizations....maybe install MAA-2 (A-Darter)
a
Against big 2-engine long range SU30s I'm not sure Gripen or F16 MLU are good solutions purely for reasons of range and max payload. Given the size of the airspace of a nation the size of Brazil, I'd have expected Typhoons or SU30s or if no money... then why not second hand Tornado ADVs ?
In 2007 the FAB will buy Rafales.
 

Ths

Banned Member
Jambock: That is one way of saying no: Of course You can buy our military plane; but without weapons!
 

contedicavour

New Member
Because that the FAB bought Israeli missiles DERBY for the F-5BR.
So Brazil already has Derby aboard its F5s or the picture is just a proposal at an airshow ? Does the F5's radar handle a missile only marginally inferior to AIM120 ? I remember reading of a radar update with Grifo by an Italian defence company, but I'm not sure it is powerful enough...

How reliable is the news about a Rafale acquisition in 2007 ??

cheers
 

swerve

Super Moderator
So Brazil already has Derby aboard its F5s or the picture is just a proposal at an airshow ? Does the F5's radar handle a missile only marginally inferior to AIM120 ? I remember reading of a radar update with Grifo by an Italian defence company, but I'm not sure it is powerful enough...
cheers
The Grifo-F is fitted to Brazils upgraded F-5Es, the first of which are now being delivered. Grifo-F doesn't have a very long range (the antenna limits it - sized for the small nose of the F-5E), but Derby or R-Darter would give it abilities it doesn't have with IR-guided missiles. Even if the radar doesn't allow the full range of the missiles to be used (but they're said to have shorter range than AIM-120 or Mica), they still give it a much better effective range, & a valuable all-weather capability.
 

contedicavour

New Member
The Grifo-F is fitted to Brazils upgraded F-5Es, the first of which are now being delivered. Grifo-F doesn't have a very long range (the antenna limits it - sized for the small nose of the F-5E), but Derby or R-Darter would give it abilities it doesn't have with IR-guided missiles. Even if the radar doesn't allow the full range of the missiles to be used (but they're said to have shorter range than AIM-120 or Mica), they still give it a much better effective range, & a valuable all-weather capability.
Interesting... then also the AMX have Grifo and are compatible with the Israeli missiles !

cheers
 

contedicavour

New Member

Big-E

Banned Member
Btw did you get your high speed internet on your next aircraft carrier ?
I don't leave till Jan 1st for Norfolk. At least I get to enjoy New Years and let the hangover wear off on the flight up. :) I was checking into the faster antenna upgrade for CVNs and it looks like all have been fitted. As long as I don't get bumped off it should be good enough for browsing. Question is "will I have to pull rank for computer time?" :lol2
 
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