Colombia to Spend $235 Mln for Air Force Aircraft

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contedicavour

New Member
Waylander said:
I thought that F-16 is normally not able to use Sparrows.
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The MLU ones can. Since the Chilean F16s are able to launch Amraams, they can launch Sparrows as well. Hence my speculation that if Chile can't have access to Amraams, and if the F16 is incompatible with Mica, then the only BVR weapon available is Sparrow (may be Meteor, but it is still a few years away from full operational status)

cheers
 
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Stimpy75

New Member
contedicavour said:
The MLU ones can. Since the Chilean F16s are able to launch Amraams, they can launch Sparrows as well. Hence my speculation that if Chile can't have access to Amraams, and if the F16 is incompatible with Mica, then the only BVR weapon available is Sparrow (may be Meteor, but it is still a few years away from full operational status)

cheers
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ey conte....you forget the Derby missile;)
As you know Chile and Israel have a good relationship,they are already operating Python 3 missile on their Pantera planes.....and there is no political pressure to get these missiles!
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Stimpy75 said:
ey conte....you forget the Derby missile;)
As you know Chile and Israel have a good relationship,they are already operating Python 3 missile on their Pantera planes.....and there is no political pressure to get these missiles!
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Ah-ha you are right, thans for reminding me about those !
Derby is already operational aboard latest blocks of F16s such as those acquired by Chile ?
How close does it come to matching AIM-120B in terms of range, speed and resistance to ECM ?

cheers
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
Waylander said:
Because of what?
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Speed, engine, altitude, payload... given she needs avionics upgrade for missiles, guns- 6x.50 cal is far superior to 2x12mm and 1x20mm. P-51 can do some heavy duty bombing, they can carry 2,000lb bombs. If you are going to buy a modern combat prop a P-51 configured with modern avionics is a superior choice. They will take any prop in a dog fight and have a chance against many of South America's aged jet fighters as well as pounding the stuffing out of jungle guerillas.

They were retired in the 80s and I can't for the life of me understand why they would purchase ALXs over a superior prop aircraft. The P-51 was the pinnacle of prop design and if cash strapped militaries demand prop combat aircraft they should go in there with the best.
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Stimpy75 said:
From what i have read the Derby missile is quite capable,although it´s range is slightly inferior to AMRAAM,but its ECM should be on par...not much is known about this missle....Well SAAF purchased these missiles for their Gripen fighters....
for more infos
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/derby/Derby.html
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OK thanks :) From the numbers I see I would still consider Chile's F16s with Derby and Python 4 as inferior to Venezuela's future SU30 with AA11 & AA12 in a direct engagement because of the Sukhoi's longer range radar and missiles. Though I do acknowledge that those theoretical data are probably not 100% reliable and that Rafael/IAI may have an interest in underestimating the performance of its weaponry, just in case ;)

cheers
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
contedicavour said:
Though I do acknowledge that those theoretical data are probably not 100% reliable and that Rafael/IAI may have an interest in underestimating the performance of its weaponry, just in case ;) cheers
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As does Russia in OVERESTIMATING the capability of it's particular systems...
 
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Ths

Banned Member
Conte:
Yes precisely: When this current tiff with the chinese is over the US might turn back and look at what this breathing space has been used for by the russians. How much are the russian going to risk provoking the USA into wiping out the russian export revenue?
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Ths said:
Conte:
Yes precisely: When this current tiff with the chinese is over the US might turn back and look at what this breathing space has been used for by the russians. How much are the russian going to risk provoking the USA into wiping out the russian export revenue?
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Pretty dramatic scenario... since a stop to russian exports would hit good old europe first of all (we rely too much on their natural gas for example).
On the other hand, Russia's current economic renaissance is heavily reliant on continued export of expensive commodities...

cheers
 
B

Big-E

Banned Member
Ths said:
Conte:
Yes precisely: When this current tiff with the chinese is over the US might turn back and look at what this breathing space has been used for by the russians. How much are the russian going to risk provoking the USA into wiping out the russian export revenue?
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Wouldn't it be in Russia's interest to do such a thing... if the USN wipes out PROC forces they will need more Russian equipment for us to send to the scrap yard. ;)
 
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Ths

Banned Member
It would not be a stop of the flow of oil; but a stop of revenue. Depending on base: Oil accounts for 1/3 to 2/3 of Russias export revenue, and prices have swung between 11 and 70 USD pr. barrel with few years.
Russia is interested in a stable costoumer (preferrably at high prices) and Europe is interested in a stable supplier (preferrably at low prices).

Some years back the European economic problem was to provide food at stable prices - preferrably low as it was the German economy that is in focus.
Today it is oil (lets face it food has become very cheap).
The problem is that the net exporters like Denmark and Britain does not have the same motive. But all in all: Europe finds it bothersome with the mood swings of US foreign policy - which is at the basis of the "anti-americanism" that diverse nutcases blow out of proportion.

That was the brief version.
 
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Ths

Banned Member
Big E.

Interesting point that raises a few questions:

1. To what extend is the expansion of the Chinese navy directed against Russia. The Pacific Fleet is the only Fleet left to Russia with any freedom of movement. The expansion programme of the Chinese fleet cannot hope to deter a determined USA - not even on the subject of Taiwan.
The US Navy is a jealoux navy that will not sit on its hands while the Chinese Fleet just grows. Up to now the growth of the Chinese Navy has been offset to some extend by the decay of the Russian.

2. With increased cooperation with Russia China exchanges (or adds) one depency for another.
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
Ths said:
Big E.

Interesting point that raises a few questions:

1. To what extend is the expansion of the Chinese navy directed against Russia. The Pacific Fleet is the only Fleet left to Russia with any freedom of movement. The expansion programme of the Chinese fleet cannot hope to deter a determined USA - not even on the subject of Taiwan.
The US Navy is a jealoux navy that will not sit on its hands while the Chinese Fleet just grows. Up to now the growth of the Chinese Navy has been offset to some extend by the decay of the Russian.

2. With increased cooperation with Russia China exchanges (or adds) one depency for another.
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I don't see the fall of the Russian fleet being replaced by PLAN as a good thing. PROC actually has money to invest in their fleet! PLAN is much more likely to engage USN than the Russian fleet ever was.. ie Taiwan. The USN might be jealous but what can we do but watch PLAN grow? We won't attack unless provoked. PLAN is currently building twice as fast as we are. :lul
 
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Ths

Banned Member
Well one thing the USA could do is to build more ships - Especially for the task. That is being done with the USS Freedom, that clearly is a sinofobe vessel. And I expect to see some hefty order for smaller Danish yards for their mine clearing equipment.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
Ths said:
Some years back the European economic problem was to provide food at stable prices - preferrably low as it was the German economy that is in focus.
Today it is oil (lets face it food has become very cheap).
The problem is that the net exporters like Denmark and Britain does not have the same motive.
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The UK is no longer a net exporter of oil.
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
Big-E said:
I don't see the fall of the Russian fleet being replaced by PLAN as a good thing. PROC actually has money to invest in their fleet! PLAN is much more likely to engage USN than the Russian fleet ever was.. ie Taiwan. The USN might be jealous but what can we do but watch PLAN grow? We won't attack unless provoked. PLAN is currently building twice as fast as we are. :lul
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Well, as long as the PLAN doesn't develop a strong ocean-going blue-water navy, it isn't too much of a problem. They are just making it even more impossible to attack their territorial waters or coastal cities (even supposing somebody would be so crazy as to try).
Other than the issue of how to defend Taiwan, for the moment the strengthening of PLAN isn't really a challenge for the mighty USN.
However, the day the PLAN comes out with carriers and serious SSNs (Han are pitiful, and the new Type 093 are based on Victor-III so not comparable to Russian Akula for example) then the USN will have to do something to keep its current huge lead in the Pacific.

cheers
 
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Ths

Banned Member
Well there is the good thing about replacing PLAN in the place of the Russian Navy: They don't start at the level the russians left off.
F.i. is the PLAN able to operate surface units bigger than destroyers?
Cruisers and Carriers would challenge on USNavy's home turf.
The Russian experience does give an indication of how difficult it is to build a Carrier force from scratch (more or less) - one thing is building the ships - quite another is operating them - we are talking about a large number of skilled specialists working seamlessly together.
 
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