China to build aircraft carrier
- Thread starter pshamim
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Agreed. We can but wait and keep watching for new aerial, shipyard, harbor or sat photos.wp2000 said:Yep, the bet is still wide opentill 2008.
Currently Varyag is being blocked by big tankers.
Jan, next year, we may see some progress
But,no matter what, I don't believe china will officially announce any thing about Varyag if it's for PLAN.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
wp2000 said:Yep, the bet is still wide open
Currently Varyag is being blocked by big tankers.
Jan, next year, we may see some progress
But,no matter what, I don't believe china will officially announce any thing about Varyag if it's for PLAN.
If, China does indeed return the Varyag back to service. How is she going to explain breaking a contract that clearly states that the she is not to be used for Military purposes????:smash
Here's a link to an article in this forum:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004328.php
It seems the US regards the PLAN's main thrust to be underwater, and whatever carrier related activity it is engaging in is more in the lines of research.
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004328.php
It seems the US regards the PLAN's main thrust to be underwater, and whatever carrier related activity it is engaging in is more in the lines of research.
I have not seen any report that chinese GOVERNMENT has signed any contract relating to Varyag's usage.Crusader2000 said:
Varyag was bought by a small company registered in HongKong (it might be established when a British governor was still ruling HongKong).
IF that company has signed any such kind of contract AND Varyag is not used as a casino in Macau, I guess China wouldn't mind if any one can find the owner of that company. That guy disappearred right after Varyag was bought. Dalian Shipyard must have a huge bill for him to pay.:xmas
Also, as far as I know, evenif it's refitted and given to PLAN, it won't be a comat ship. I won't be surprised if China calls it something like long rang heavy peace loving ship, just like Japan's 13000ton light heli frigat.
As I said, this contract thing, if there is one, would have been solved before Varyag was towed away from Ukrane years ago.
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ajaybhutani
New Member
china has a track record of not taking patents, rules, intellectual property rights sireously. Do u really think they will abide by any such aggrements signed with a small country.. while they dont evern respect aggrements with russia.wp2000 said:I have not seen any report that chinese GOVERNMENT has signed any contract relating to Varyag's usage.
Varyag was bought by a small company registered in HongKong (it might be established when a British governor was still ruling HongKong).
IF that company has signed any such kind of contract AND Varyag is not used as a casino in Macau, I guess China wouldn't mind if any one can find the owner of that company. That guy disappearred right after Varyag was bought. Dalian Shipyard must have a huge bill for him to pay.:xmas
Also, as far as I know, evenif it's refitted and given to PLAN, it won't be a comat ship. I won't be surprised if China calls it something like long rang heavy peace loving ship, just like Japan's 13000ton light heli frigat.
As I said, this contract thing, if there is one, would have been solved before Varyag was towed away from Ukrane years ago.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
True but it still could hurt future contracts! Many in Europe would love to see the arms embargo lifted. Yet, who can trust China to its word?ajaybhutani said:
thot Lee Kashing* was the one who bought it and gave it to the Chinese government as a gift after re-unification of HK & mainland [ heresay amongst street-folks ; i personally heard that bit frm a friend who's been into Chinese defence stuff , tho more for scale-modelling sake than anything else ] ...
no matter , since it wasn't the Chinese government that bought the vessel or signed the contract proper ( tho i believe they did haggle with the various foreign authorities for various vessels before sentiments toward the Chinese warmed ) , they in fact have no need to bother whether or not the Varyag just lay in ruins . so far they seem to have done a good job of cleaning it up and even restoring / completing the unfinished main superstructure ...
a simple case of '' ... not letting anything go to waste '' perhaps
* edit - not meant to defame Mr Lee (heresay , heresay ...)
no matter , since it wasn't the Chinese government that bought the vessel or signed the contract proper ( tho i believe they did haggle with the various foreign authorities for various vessels before sentiments toward the Chinese warmed ) , they in fact have no need to bother whether or not the Varyag just lay in ruins . so far they seem to have done a good job of cleaning it up and even restoring / completing the unfinished main superstructure ...
a simple case of '' ... not letting anything go to waste '' perhaps
* edit - not meant to defame Mr Lee (heresay , heresay ...)
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addendum ... abt contracts on paper
in history China was the first to use paper , so you would at least expect it to follow what's written on it these days .
so lets not confuse hoodlum & corrupt officials who are out for a quick buck and the Beijing Government proper , shall we . i personally despise those who rip DVDs and software etc... but that's going off-topic somewhat . laters ~
p.s - i do understand that all private sector ventures regarding the carriers could well have been China's way of going around the official stance that the Russians and Ukranians had adopted against them at the time ^^;
in history China was the first to use paper , so you would at least expect it to follow what's written on it these days .
so lets not confuse hoodlum & corrupt officials who are out for a quick buck and the Beijing Government proper , shall we . i personally despise those who rip DVDs and software etc... but that's going off-topic somewhat . laters ~
p.s - i do understand that all private sector ventures regarding the carriers could well have been China's way of going around the official stance that the Russians and Ukranians had adopted against them at the time ^^;
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Crusader2000
Banned Member
tonbo said:
So, set up a dummy company and when it goes under. You get the ship with no strings.........................:fly
But, you are assuming that all the parties involved are innocent except chinese. I believe it's all well arranged before China started to tow it back from Ukrane.Crusader2000 said:True but it still could hurt future contracts! Many in Europe would love to see the arms embargo lifted. Yet, who can trust China to its word?
Also about those so called license breaking behaviours, especially military ones, have you noticed that at least most of those IP owners never seriously and loudly complained about this, not to mention taking any concrete actions. Why?
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It's a common way though. I don't believe china invented this method.Crusader2000 said:
Also, strings were paid to be removed, not a simple "no strings". You know, for example, about the demolition of the power system, how to destruct something has huge room for negotiation to make everybody happy.
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PLAN future carrier? crusier?
There has been reports that the PLAN will make the Varieg operational but reports has it that the super strucuture has been damaged beyond repair. They has also been reports that PLAN is planing to buy Ukrainin cruiser. Any one know anything about this. Also disguss the future PLAN ddgs and the type 54a ffg
There has been reports that the PLAN will make the Varieg operational but reports has it that the super strucuture has been damaged beyond repair. They has also been reports that PLAN is planing to buy Ukrainin cruiser. Any one know anything about this. Also disguss the future PLAN ddgs and the type 54a ffg
Untrue. The Varyag was stripped of all warfighting equipment and communications systems.zoolander said:
Structurally she was relatively intact - no equipment was deliberately rendered inop. What was inop was primarily due to being abandoned at the maint level by the Russians.
Are you talking about the Ukrina? It's been mentionned that PLAN might be interested in it, but I think Slava is probably not what would be the best option for PLAN. In fact, China has its own version of mini-Slava in 051C. If anything, getting a couple of Udaloy would be a lot more useful in giving China some real ASW capabilities. As for 054A, a lot of news and not much actions are going on. 052C is going through a lot of sea trials and sorting out the problems that would exist with any new combat systems. The recent rush in new DDGs might extinguish for a couple of years after 051Cs are commissionned. The primary DDG shipyard in China is getting relocated.zoolander said:
I understood work on the Varyag stopped at 70% in 1991 with approx $500m remaining to complete fit out. Having transferred to the Ukraine it had its engines, rudders and other hardware removed by ‘scrap merchants’ before its protracted sale and move to China.
This hull is approx 20 years old (laid down during the 80’s) and has been neglected. I expect the PLAN has its work cut out to deliver it as an operational platform anytime before 2010 and even then would see it more as a trials platform or template for a future home grown carrier.
Impressive platform for showing the flag in the meantime…
This hull is approx 20 years old (laid down during the 80’s) and has been neglected. I expect the PLAN has its work cut out to deliver it as an operational platform anytime before 2010 and even then would see it more as a trials platform or template for a future home grown carrier.
Impressive platform for showing the flag in the meantime…