you are right about better protection,but an rpg milan etc is easier to aim at slower veh,and i for one,would feel safer in a fast veh,than a slightly better protected slow mover,and lets face it,modern anti tank weopons will take out any apc,ifv, so give me the fastest one!!!
Australian Army to increase by 2,600
- Thread starter Whiskyjack
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Aussie Digger
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That's life in the desert for you. You can't remain cool all the time...icelord said:Well, the bushmasters can't be that bad, the CDF is having 4 more added to the current 15 in Iraq. Plus, i got money says the infantry boys would be loving the Air con thats on board, but it would suck jumping out into the heat...Shot-gun being driver
I think the fact that Bushmasters are there at all says a lot about Army's plans and "crystal ball" gazing.
Bushmaster as has been pointed out many times, was designed as a "battlefield taxi" and to provide armour protection for those in an area of operations, not those in the front line who are going into harms way. Unfortunately the vehicle is being forced to be used in this role because there's nothing else we have that can do it. The recent upgrades announced (cool water drinking systems, "remote weapon stations" and armour package upgrades) are indicative of this.
If Army would get some backbone and demand Government provide them with a decent IFV and point these issues out to Government for ALL our equipment instead of "toeing the company line" and pretending everythings okay, the Digs wouldn't have to make do with "2nd best" kit for years on end and the Government wouldn't need to splash out on the innumerable "rapid acquisitions" that continually happen any time we wish to deploy somewhere new...
The situation's absurd. They refuse to spend money, deny anything's wrong with their way of thinking, actually put their plan's into action and only then realise they were wrong all along and then spend fortunes on fixing the problem that was already there. Unfortunately it's only ever AFTER our soldiers, sailors and airmen have to go into harm's way.
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Aussie Digger
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Our Special Air Service Regiment uses "modified" 6x6 Land Rover 110's as reputedly does 4RAR (Commando). They are used for long range patrolling, ()recon missions in the main) though when necessary they are used to provide fire support with heavier weapons (MAG-58 GPMG, 0.50 cal HMG's, Mk 19 40mm auto-grenade launchers, Javelin ATGW and Sniper rifles).MG 3 said:
As they are unarmoured (except for mine protection - "belly-armour") I doubt they are used to assault many positions and they are certainly not "fast"...
The special forces variants however are to be replaced by a "customised" variant of the HMT 6x6 Supacat with an armoured cabin and other "goodies"...
A variant is also used by the reserves as an "infantry mobility vehicle" and carry an entire section in purpose designed seating. These are used by general infantry forces and generally carry a 5.56mm F-89A1 Minimi, though sometimes a MAG-58 GPMG.
Other variants are used for Satellite Communications, engineering vehicles and a new version is being constructed to support our RBS-70 surface to air missile teams within 16 AD Regt...
All these variants are due to be phased out shortly however as Australia has a project known as "Overlander" to replace or upgrade all it's non-armoured or technical (such as specialist engineering vehicles) vehicles. This is to be chosen relatively shortly and is a massive project, with nearly 6000 vehicles needing replacement...
All they have to do is ask, with the way defence proqurments(spell check) is going, u basically have a chrissy list that santa reads and gives you. These "rapid acqusitions" take most countries years, let alone a couple of months to buy. Look at the USMC, they have gone to the US senate and said we need, this this and this, and they've come back with a wait and see. Over here, CDF goes to the PM, "i need a couple of big arse planes, some Boats the whirly birds land on and people ferry to places, and a few new cars and trucks, say 6000-7000". The reply, "alright, what colour interior do u want, same old green, and brown", CDF, "nah, gold and hot pink, get some more female recruits on boardAussie Digger said:
". If you checked, the Javilin was bought before anyone deployed, few months later, their thanking their rears as it got them out of some hairy places. The former CDF had it brought to him, said why not, the PM said use it wisely young padiwan, and it kicked some serious arse.This is the biggest advancement the ADF has seen in years, enjoy it while it lasts.
Really, supacat, i thought they were still looking, the supacat 6x6 just seems a little, small for the SAS, compared with the defender. I could see it being used for the Reserves or regs on recon, but on long hauls like the ones currently undertaken, i just don't see it lasting as well as the Defender, even with Specialised SAS mods
Have to agree with you mate! The "buys" happening at the moment are unlike anything I have seen before.Quality buys to! Under Beazley we got.....M&M,s in our rat packs....ha ha! oh,ok to be fair,we got collins class subs,F/A18,s,Kanimbla and Manoora(they saw us comin!),Raven radio,s,styers...but these were all purchaces needed to replace outdated equipment, nothing like whats happening now. Hope it dosnt stop just yet, and i feel there will be some surprises in store in the near future! very optimistic!icelord said:All they have to do is ask, with the way defence proqurments(spell check) is going, u basically have a chrissy list that santa reads and gives you. These "rapid acqusitions" take most countries years, let alone a couple of months to buy. Look at the USMC, they have gone to the US senate and said we need, this this and this, and they've come back with a wait and see. Over here, CDF goes to the PM, "i need a couple of big arse planes, some Boats the whirly birds land on and people ferry to places, and a few new cars and trucks, say 6000-7000". The reply, "alright, what colour interior do u want, same old green, and brown", CDF, "nah, gold and hot pink, get some more female recruits on board
If you checked, the Javilin was bought before anyone deployed, few months later, their thanking their rears as it got them out of some hairy places. The former CDF had it brought to him, said why not, the PM said use it wisely young padiwan, and it kicked some serious arse.This is the biggest advancement the ADF has seen in years, enjoy it while it lasts.
Really, supacat, i thought they were still looking, the supacat 6x6 just seems a little, small for the SAS, compared with the defender. I could see it being used for the Reserves or regs on recon, but on long hauls like the ones currently undertaken, i just don't see it lasting as well as the Defender, even with Specialised SAS mods
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Aussie Digger
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There's plenty of acquisitions for Army still waiting to be progressed, Land 17 - Artillery, Overlander, 81mm Long range mortar system, Land 40 Phase 2 "area" direct fire weapons systems, ASLAV Phase 4 upgrades, new Battlefield comms project, Chinook upgrade/additional airframes, further phases of Land 125 "soldier enhancement" project, Land 400 "new" armoured vehicle acquisition project. The list goes on and on and these are the projects that are publicly announced...old faithful said:
Is there any timeframe, if ever that these projects hope to be wrapped up and put into production, the overlander is going nowhere with no news about its candidates or tests.Aussie Digger said:There's plenty of acquisitions for Army still waiting to be progressed, Land 17 - Artillery, Overlander, 81mm Long range mortar system, Land 40 Phase 2 "area" direct fire weapons systems, ASLAV Phase 4 upgrades, new Battlefield comms project, Chinook upgrade/additional airframes, further phases of Land 125 "soldier enhancement" project, Land 400 "new" armoured vehicle acquisition project. The list goes on and on and these are the projects that are publicly announced...
Theres a Top Secret Project to Enhance the Overall soldier, its know as Project WRP, or Work Rest Play, it involves upgrading Rat packs with Mars Bars
nfloorl: See, beazleys the sort of bloke who walks into a used car dealership, comes out smiling cause he bought 3 datsons and a ford laser and thinks he got a bargain, failing to check whether it works and if he can get in it first....
ha ha ha! he couldnt get into a T10 harness when we wanted to review our para allowance, and he coudnt get into the turret of Leo1 for a pr shot on K92! I couldnt get a new pair of boots for K92,and my webbing was mine!,I made it! The defence projects running at the moment are not to be joked about, we are getting seriously good kit, i know there are some short falls in personal kit, but on the whole the ADF is very well equiped...and getting better!icelord said:Is there any timeframe, if ever that these projects hope to be wrapped up and put into production, the overlander is going nowhere with no news about its candidates or tests.
Theres a Top Secret Project to Enhance the Overall soldier, its know as Project WRP, or Work Rest Play, it involves upgrading Rat packs with Mars Bars
See, beazleys the sort of bloke who walks into a used car dealership, comes out smiling cause he bought 3 datsons and a ford laser and thinks he got a bargain, failing to check whether it works and if he can get in it first....
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Aussie Digger
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You want some jokes about military service?old faithful said:
How to simulate Army life...
1. Dig a big hole in your back yard and live in it for 30 days straight.
2. Go inside only to clean the house. On weekends, you can eat in the house, but you can't talk.
3. Pour 10 inches of nasty, crappy water into your hole, then shovel it out, stack sandbags around it and cover it with a sheet of old plywood.
4. Fill a backpack with 50 pounds of kitty litter. Never take it off outdoors. Jog everywhere you go.
5. Every couple of weeks, dress up in your best clothes and go the scummiest part of town, find the most run down trashy bar you can, pay $10 per beer until you're hammered, then walk home in the freezing cold.
6. Perform a weekly disassembly and inspection of your lawnmower.
7. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays turn the water pressure in your shower down to a trickle, then on Tuesday and Thursday turn it up so hard it peels skin. On Saturdays and Sundays declare to your entire family that they can't use the shower in order to keep it clean for inspection.
8. Go inside and make your bed every morning. Have your wife tear the blankets off at random during the day. Re-make the bed each time until it is time to go back outside and sleep in your hole.
9. Have your next door neighbor come over each day at 5am, and blow a whistle so loud that Helen Keller could hear it and shout "Get up! Get up! You are moving too slow! Get down and do push-ups!"
10. Have your mother-in-law write down everything she's going to do the following day, then have her make you stand in the back yard at 6am and read it to you.
11. Eat the raunchiest Mexican food you can find for three days straight, then lock yourself out of the bathroom for 12 hours. Hang a sign on the bathroom door that says, "Unserviceable."
12. Submit a request form to your father-in-law, asking if it's ok for you to leave your house before 5pm.
13. Invite 200 of your not-so-closest friends to come over. Have them all dig holes in your yard to live in. After 30 days, fill in the holes and wave at your friends and family through the front window of your home as you set out for a 25 mile walk and After-Action-Review.
14. Shower with above-mentioned friends.
15. Make your family qualify to operate all the appliances in your home (i.e. Dishwasher operator, blender technician, etc.).
16. Walk around your car for 4 hours checking the tire pressure every 15 minutes. Write down on a piece of paper everything you want the shop to fix the next time you bring the car in. Give your wife the list to throw away.
17. Sit in your car and let it run for 4 hours with the windows down before going anywhere. Tune the radio to static and monitor it while letting the car run. If it is cold outside, don't run the heat. Sleep on the hood or roof of your car.
18. Empty all the garbage bins in your house, and sweep your driveway 3 times a day, whether they need it or not.
19. Repaint your entire house once a month. Paint white rings around all the trees in your neighborhood. Paint all curbs yellow. Paint all rocks red.
20. Cook all of your food blindfolded, groping for any spice and seasoning you can get your hands on.
21. Use eighteen scoops of budget coffee grounds per pot, and allow each pot to sit 5 hours before drinking.
22. Have your neighbor collect all your mail for a month, read your magazines, and randomly lose every 5th item.
23. Spend $20,000 on a satellite system for your TV, but only watch CNN and the Weather Channel when you are inside to eat. Tune the tint on the TV to green.
24. Avoid watching your green tinted TV with the exception of movies which are played in the middle of the night. Have the family vote on which movie to watch and then show a different one.
25. Have your 5-year-old cousin give you a haircut with goat shears.
26. Sew big pockets to the legs of your pants. Don't use them.
27. Spend 2 weeks sleeping in holes in your neighbor's lawns and call it a deployment.
28. Spend a year sleeping in holes in your local area and call it world travel.
29. Attempt to spend 5 years working at McDonalds, and NOT get promoted.
30. Ensure that any promotions you do get are from stepping on the dead bodies of your co-workers.
31. Blast heavy metal music on your stereo and conduct Ranger PT, grass drills, and sprints on your front lawn after your neighbors have gone to bed.
32. When your children are in bed, run into their room with a megaphone and shout at the top of your lungs that your home is under attack, and order them to man their fighting positions. Don't let them eat or sleep again for two days.
33. Make your family menu a week ahead of time and do so without checking the pantry and refrigerator.
34. Post a menu on the refrigerator door informing your family that you are having steak for dinner. Then make them wait in line for at least an hour. When they finally get to the kitchen, tell them that you are out of steak, but you have dried ham or hot dogs. Repeat daily until they don't pay attention to the menu any more so they just ask for hot dogs.
35. When baking a cake, prop up one side of the pan while it is in the oven. Spread icing on real thick to level it off.
36. In the middle of January, place a gate at the end of your street. Have your family stand watches at the gate, rotating at 4-hour intervals.
37. Make your family live with you in your hole for 6 weeks. Then tell them that at the end of the 6th week you're going to take them to Disneyland for "block leave." When the end of the 6th week rolls around, inform them that Disneyland has been canceled due to the fact that they need to get ready for Individual Skill Certification, and that it will be another week before they can go back into the house.
38. In your hole (refer to #1), with 200 of your not-so-closest friends (see para. 13), get the flu.
39. Sleep in a thicket of blackberries or rose bushes. Tie a string to your foot that runs to the house. Have your wife yank on the string about 3 hours after you go to sleep. Crawl out of the bushes and go to the house to see what she wants. She should then shine a flashlight in your eyes and mumble "Just making sure you're okay."
40. Do not sleep from 1:00 a.m. Monday mornings until 3 p.m. Wednesday afternoons. Tie a branch around your neck and chew on sand to stay awake.
41. When there is a thunderstorm in your area, dig a trench into your hole so that it fills up with water. During the worst part of the storm, get out of your hole and go for a 12 mile walk.
42. Don't change your socks for a week. After they disintegrate off with pieces of your feet, put on an unbroken pair of new boots and go for a 12 mile walk.
43. For mechanized infantry or armor types: leave the lawn mower running next to your hole 24 hours a day. When you get an opportunity to sleep in your house, put lube oil in your humidifier and set it on high.
44. Have the paperboy give you a haircut.
45. Set up a port-a-potty in the corner of your yard. Once a week, have the service truck back into your yard and pump it out. Make sure the wind carries the smell into your neighbors house. Ignore his complaints.
46. Every other month pull every single possession you own out of your house and line everything up on your lawn from smallest to largest, front to back. Count everything and write it down to file with your insurance company. Give your wife the list to throw away.
47. Lock wire the lug nuts on your car.
48. Buy a trash can, but don't use it. Store the garbage in your hole.
49. Get up every night around midnight and stroll around your yard to "check the perimeter."
50. Run the garden hose to your hole and turn it on. Set your alarm clock to go off at random during the night. Jump up and get dressed as fast as you can. Run out into the backyard and get in your hole.
51. Once a month, take apart every major appliance in your home and put them back together again.
52. Build a scale model of your yard. Make your children draw sketches of it including little arrows indicating what they are going to do when they go out to play. Post these sketches on a bulletin board for reference.
53. Remove the insulation and widen the frames of your front and back doors so that no matter how tight you shut the door, the weather will still get inside.
54. Every so often, throw the cat in front of your hole and shout "Enemy in the wire! Fire Claymores!" Then run into the house cut off the circuit breaker. Yell at the wife and kids for violating security and not maintaining good noise and light discipline.
55. Put on the headphones from your stereo set, but don't plug them in. Hang a paper cup around your neck with string. Go sit in your car. Say to no one in particular "Lost-One, this is Lost-Three, are you lost too, over?" Sit there for three or four hours with the engine running. Say again to no one in particular "Negative contact, Lost-Three out." Roll up your headphones and paper cup and place them in a box.
Latest Contact mag has report that Landrover has pulled out of Project overlander, leaving Tenix high and dry.
Also, a mate in DFR is a bit sceptical on the possibility of getting enough numbers for 3RAR with the current new recruit figures down, although he is hopeful that they will get a min. Target, what i'm wondering is, what if they don't get enough? Most will come over from Para 2 mech, while 400-500 will go to 4RAR. Will Most of para go though, or will they move to other roles.
Also coming from DFR is that Army will perhaps go back to old ways of selecting the jobs and Corps for you, much like Duntroon does at the moment, filling people in where it needs them. At the moment for everyone out there, you can select whether to be Rifleman, gun number, armoured or any trade. Going on the requirments, perhaps Tradees will be able to select their preference while everyone else will go into the pool, first ones out get Infantry.
Also, a mate in DFR is a bit sceptical on the possibility of getting enough numbers for 3RAR with the current new recruit figures down, although he is hopeful that they will get a min. Target, what i'm wondering is, what if they don't get enough? Most will come over from Para 2 mech, while 400-500 will go to 4RAR. Will Most of para go though, or will they move to other roles.
Also coming from DFR is that Army will perhaps go back to old ways of selecting the jobs and Corps for you, much like Duntroon does at the moment, filling people in where it needs them. At the moment for everyone out there, you can select whether to be Rifleman, gun number, armoured or any trade. Going on the requirments, perhaps Tradees will be able to select their preference while everyone else will go into the pool, first ones out get Infantry.
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Aussie Digger
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Mate, you sure you're drum is right about the Battalions? 3RAR is an already formed battalion and whilst not at "authorised" numbers (due to DFR's poor performance I might add), it is not far off. Why would 4RAR be getting 400-500 new soldiers?icelord said:
The new battalions are to be 5RAR and 7RAR (7RAR formed after the current 5/7 de-links) and 8/9RAR. Both new battalions will have their RHQ formed this year, and 7RAR is to be manned first with 8/9RAR expected to be fully manned by 2011/12. Most new recruits for the next couple of years would go to 7RAR I'd imagine...
"The 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (3 RAR), will be re-roled from a light infantry / parachute battalion to a mechanised infantry battalion and provided with upgraded M113 and Bushmaster vehicles"
http://www.army.gov.au/HNA/default2.htm
"The 3 RAR mechanised battlegroup will be raised from 2011, when 3 RAR is relocated from Holsworthy to its new home in Adelaide.The new vehicles delivered under two key Defence Capability Plan projects (Project Land 106 and Land 116), which will already be in service, will be redistributed within the 1st and 7th Brigades to provide both 3 RAR and the current mechanised battlegroup, based on the 5th/7th Battalion (5/7 RAR), with equal levels of protected mobility."
My understanding is, 3RAR para/infantry is to be made Mechanised, as stated in Hardened network plan, they will be moved from holsworthy to Adelaide, and the para made a part of 4RAR Special forces, am i high or close to nowhere?
http://www.army.gov.au/HNA/default2.htm
"The 3 RAR mechanised battlegroup will be raised from 2011, when 3 RAR is relocated from Holsworthy to its new home in Adelaide.The new vehicles delivered under two key Defence Capability Plan projects (Project Land 106 and Land 116), which will already be in service, will be redistributed within the 1st and 7th Brigades to provide both 3 RAR and the current mechanised battlegroup, based on the 5th/7th Battalion (5/7 RAR), with equal levels of protected mobility."
My understanding is, 3RAR para/infantry is to be made Mechanised, as stated in Hardened network plan, they will be moved from holsworthy to Adelaide, and the para made a part of 4RAR Special forces, am i high or close to nowhere?
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Aussie Digger
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Wayoff mate, that info's out of date. 3RAR is now to transfer to Townsville and is to re-role to a light infanty battalion, minus the parachute capability. It's support assets (such as "A" Battery) will also move to Townsville.icelord said:
5/7RAR is to "de-link" as 2/4RAR did in the late 90's and 2 new battalions will be formed: 5RAR and 7RAR. These units will both be mechanised with 5RAR located in Darwin and 7RAR will be located in the new facilities to be built in Adelaide. Together they will form the mech inf battalions assigned to 1 Brigade.
4RAR (Cmdo) is to take on the "ready" Parachute company group capability that 3RAR currently maintains. This will be done from existing resources which were bolstered to 2x companies (plus TAG-East) under the recent "Special Forces Direct Entry" scheme.
A new light infantry battalion (8/9RAR) will be formed and located in South East Queensland. It hasn't been decided as to whether this battalion will be located at Enoggera or Amberley, though I'd almost put money into it moving back into it's old "lines" at Gallipoli barracks and 9RQR getting moved out, possibly to become part of 11th Brigade (Queensland's "reserve" brigade)....
The HNA plan still exists but it's been modified significantly by a Government apparently prepared to invest quite a bit more in defence than has recently been the case...
most will go from para to mech,while 4-500 will go to 4RAR? Man, 3RAR would be stuggling to have 500 on the books! # rifle coys,approx 300,admin coy,about 90,support coy,the biggest,about 150,and BHQ with about 40,thats assuming everything is fully manned,delta coy is a training coy with only a small infrastructure,maybe 8 men.:lol3icelord said:
Thats the problem i see, if this does happen, then who knows, u might end up doing a steward or cook when u want Engineer.scraw said:
AD, my bad, thats the info i came across on the Army website, i should have realised, its all govt. related, and unless its politcal party info, it never gets updated.