Going by overseas experance it is also an area that once a requirement is identified. production of low to mid tech drones came be ramped up quite quickly.
Sometimes technology and it's implemention gets the jump on us.
The "drone thing " is one of those challenges.
I think the ADF needs to BOTH look to the future and also aquire anti Drone defences today.
Acknowledge the later will he outdated fairly quickly ,but accept it will provide immediate capability that long term R and.D will not.
I feel this will be a fast moving realm going forward with an ebb and flow of offensive and defensive systems each trying to get the upper hand.
A fast moving space that may not accommodate long terms habits of taking a long long time to " get it right ".
Either way it will be an expensive exercise.
The reality is that's the military dynamic we will have to work with.
Military commitments could be but a week away. Stuff happens when you don't expect it.
We need this asap
Cheers S
Yep, so you develop a rolling program of acquisitions to address evolving threats, instead of a massive one off acquisition of a certain capability set…
As someone mentioned here previously…the dept of defence would currently take a year to Oder a photocopier. Regardless of order time frames though…does anyone expect to click their fingers and someone will have a ready supply Of drones sitting on a shelf? Could we start with a (cheapish) quad cooter that can drop weapons up to 15kg weapon and then a winged drone that can carry say 20-50kg warhead but over a longer distance with some loiter time built in? Just something that our force can train with and develop skills from there? …without going through a multi year procurement process? perfect will be the enemy of good.
Correct , we are not going down to the shop today and walk out with a capability.
But it should be a high priority resolve for the ADF to tackle the challenges of this emerging threat.
Priority would be a defence capability against the realativly small and cheap stuff causing such grief in eastern Europe.
Second , explore and introduce our own
offensive capability.
Cheers S
PS order a photocopier !
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Photocopiers are easy, because you don't have to beg pollies for them, just buy them via DUP(Direct Unit Purchase).
And for actual capabilities there is Rapid Acquisition.
Bloke got a CSM in the Australia Day list for his work with counter drone technology, so I don’t think Army is exactly ignoring the issue. Surprisingly, not all the brightest or those in the know people contribute to Defence Talk……
Bloke got a CSM in the Australia Day list for his work with counter drone technology, so I don’t think Army is exactly ignoring the issue. Surprisingly, not all the brightest or those in the know people contribute to Defence Talk……
A very valid observation that is supported by history.
At the beginning of WWII many of the major nations started with large quantities of near new and brand new obsolescent and obsolete equipment.
Worse, capabilities that, in hindsight, would have been far better in service, were cancelled or diverted to other roles because so much money and time had been invested in the obsolescent/obsolete capabilities.
The when early war loses needed to be replaced, additional orders were placed for the now demonstrably obsolescent/obsolete capabilities because so many reasorses had been committed to their manufacture that it was perceived as impossible to switch to something else.
Ironically, while frontline forces were making do with new production obsolescent/obsolete capabilities with bodged together upgrades, true innovation was occuring using what ever was left over.
Just wondering if anyone saw this recent article. It is behind a pay wall.
UK to send new choppers to fill gap from axed Taipans.
Upon further investigation it appears our army is leasing 5 Juno EC 135s from the UK, possibly Aerospatiale UK. It also appears we are only getting another 12 blackhawks this year, thus still quite a shortfall. Has anyone heard more on this? Caught me by surprise.
UK to send new choppers to fill gap from axed Taipans.
Upon further investigation it appears our army is leasing 5 Juno EC 135s from the UK, possibly Aerospatiale UK. It also appears we are only getting another 12 blackhawks this year, thus still quite a shortfall. Has anyone heard more on this? Caught me by surprise.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The ADF already operates the EC-135 in the basic trg role, 15 at the ADF Helicopter school at Nowra, so it should be straightforward for the Army to integrate the aircraft.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Almost certainly leased under a similar arrangement to the three AW-139 Helicopters the Army currently has. Maintain currency, do some basic logistics tasking within Australia, will not be deployed outside of Australia.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Three Black Hawk army helicopters to arrive early (msn.com)
Confirmation on the five H135 Helicopters, they will be leased for 5 years and under the original deal 9 UH-60M was to be delivered this year but that has now been increased to 12, the rest will be delivered by 2029. Also there is $830m worth of support contracts for Black Hawks, Apache's and Chinooks.
Confirmation on the five H135 Helicopters, they will be leased for 5 years and under the original deal 9 UH-60M was to be delivered this year but that has now been increased to 12, the rest will be delivered by 2029. Also there is $830m worth of support contracts for Black Hawks, Apache's and Chinooks.
Similar numbers mention on the ABC today.
Certainly some concern re the pace of aquistion of the UH-60M.
Fast track??? Out to 2029, really!
The lease of five H135 helicopters whilst
prudent , does suggest Army have concerns about a capability gap for light /medium lift.
The H135 will be good for logistics in a permissive environment, but our battlefield offering going forward is concerning.
Partularly for the special forces.
So this time next year we will hopefully have twelve blackhawks.
With an availability rate of 100 percent that could be concerning , if active duty was called realistic availability will be made worse with the knowledge that nothing is 100 percent.
Hopefully no military or HADR challenges ahead.
Cheers S
1 approx every 2 months doesn’t seem that bad.
2023-3(3)
2024-9(12)
2025-6?(18)
2026-6?(24)
2027-6?(30)
2028-6?(36)
2029-4?(40)
+14 Chinooks
+5 H135 (5 year lease)
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Army to lease surplus British helicopters - Australian Defence Magazine
The H135 are actually ex UK Military Juno HT1 aircraft and we are leasing them from the UK DOD and they will be based at Oakey. The UK ordered H135 in 2022 but mothballed them before delivery due to no longer being required.
The H135 are actually ex UK Military Juno HT1 aircraft and we are leasing them from the UK DOD and they will be based at Oakey. The UK ordered H135 in 2022 but mothballed them before delivery due to no longer being required.
It seems to me, that this government's priority is definitely not the ADF. Everything is being delayed as long as possible. I'm surprised they didn't do a review on the rotary force. If Canberra asked the US for Blackhawks asap, we would get them asap. They are in no rush. The AUKUS subs are costing us, and the G.O.D is avoiding spending money today, more interested in getting the tax cuts through, so average Joe stops hating on them.