Aardvark144
Active Member
Perhaps so, or could we have cut a deal with NATO (multiple countries of which continue to operate variants of the NH90), to undertake the various work required? Just thoughts.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Whether Australia did the work, or another country somewhere else did, the work would still need to be done and someone would not only need to pay for it, but likely pay to have pieces of kit get installed/re-installed as well as get the helicopter configured to some flyable standard.
TBH I suspect that more/better bang for the buck could be had, if countries/groups wishing to contribute to Ukraine's defences were instead to seek out Mil Mi-8 helicopters/parts on the int'l market, or perhaps settle upon a US or Euro helicopter design with a history of service and readily available parts. The Sikorsky S-70/H-60 family comes to mind as one potential example, however if a transport helicopter more in line with the size and seated capacity of the NH90 is desired, then perhaps something from the Puma/Cougar/Caracal would be better and across the different versions and production dates, some ~2,000 examples have been built.
N
not really ….it’s bash dept of defence for doing something so quickly …to be fair the opaque answers from GOD early in the exercise didn’t help.
From all the media I can see including the formal request that was published in the Australian a week or so ago, Ukraine did not ask for Australia to do anything other than supply the air frames.
Without being brought back up to operational condition they are boat anchors.
You would not supply a forty year old Cessna in such a state, irrespective of what uninformed talking heads say, there is no way in this planet such a complex asset could have been provided in such a way.
This discussion shows a clear split down the line of those who understand ( or at least comprehend the need for) support systems and those who don't.
This is not a poorly scripted scify movie where a plucky hero with no training, no experience, jumps in an ancient, dust covered, plane, tank, ship, spaceship, that just works, and saves the day.
This is the real world. If it is not properly supported, and personnel are trained, even if it gets off the ground it will be useless, then it will likely crash and people will likely die.
Reading this article although not much is given away ,its open to speculation if electric reactive armour could be used in land vehicles
The futuristic war tech in America's newest aircraft carriers - unlike kinds
The futuristic war tech in America's newest aircraft carriers - unlike kinds
I
i hear you but if Ukraine asked for them in whatever condition we should not be playing god. Their call. I don’t think any Australian bureaucrat is in any position to tell the Ukraine anything about, war, logistics, procurement or Frankenstein equipment. If they think it’s a suitable allocation if resources that would be their call.
I have nothing but respect for the people of Ukraine and am on record on previous posts that we as a country should give aid and support. including military equipment.
But we are a soverign nation and have the right to decide for ourselves form of support we give.
Just because the answer on this one item was no is not automatically proof of incompetence or worse evil intent on behalf of Aus Gov.
Accept it and move on.
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I remember BAE experimenting in the early 2000s with a cooper armor ultra charged to create a magnetic field and stop the molten element of the HEAT rounds. If my memory works well.
Its a game played by two and as written before that means giving the French more bullets and allies when the next cooperation treaty is going to come.
An Australian strategy for improved aid to Ukraine | Lowy Institute
More resources would be a good start – as well as diplomatic backing, better coordination, and a stronger statement about why democracy matters.
www.lowyinstitute.org
The important point IMHO is:
Sorry I'm not across international politcs as much as I should be, but the reference "the french more bullets" is lost on me.Its a game played by two and as written before that means giving the French more bullets and allies when the next cooperation treaty is going to come.
An Australian strategy for improved aid to Ukraine | Lowy Institute
More resources would be a good start – as well as diplomatic backing, better coordination, and a stronger statement about why democracy matters.
The important point IMHO is:
I agree with Aus aid to Ukraine, but think it might be more useful in other forms such as 155mm shells as stated in this article.
Should we dig up the F111s slap on a new coat of paint and send them to Ukraine too.
(APA would be happy.) Would provide the same operational utility as the MH 90s.
Support packages from all nations are anounced at various times so on any given day the so called level of support will vary.
But you choose one day to rate them, and then belittle Australia's effort. A non European, non NATO country that has been one of Ukraines biggest supporters during this conflict.
First casualty of the 'replace the Anzac with Pacific Islanders' campaign in today's The Australian. "
Accused Fijian torturer Colonel Penioni (Ben) Naliva to command ADF troops
This is just a warm up, wait till enough fools start demanding direct recruiting.
Accused Fijian torturer Colonel Penioni (Ben) Naliva to command ADF troops
This is just a warm up, wait till enough fools start demanding direct recruiting.
AndyinOz
Member
Here is a 'podcast' on YouTube from The Australian's channel on that platform a little 8:30min summary touching on the alleged incidents involving this particular individual. I do not have access to the actual article itself so I am not sure if it expands on the allegations there.
Recruiting from the Pacific Islands for the Australian Army in 2024 at scale is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. A few individuals here or there is one thing, but a program to recruit enough Pacific Islanders to make an impact on ADF personnel levels holds the very real risk of catastrophic reputational damage for the Australian Army. Anyone with indepth recent knowledge of these nations would never ever consider the idea. Indiscipline, criminal activity, corruption and sale of military grade rifles and munitions not to mention frequent mutiny and even coup attempts. Any fond memories of the Royal Pacific Islands Regiment of yesteryear and happy thoughts it could be reproduced in 2024 are delusional, that Melanesia and Polynesia are long long gone. The islanders have moved on and we are no long Kiap blong Australia.
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justinterested
New Member
There was an article in yesterdays Australian, written by Ben Packham, concerning the Defence’s failure to address the drone threat, and to purchase killer drones for the ADF. It stated that that "none of the service’s $5bn Boxer combat reconnaissance vehicles, its new $3bn fleet of Abrams tanks, or its $4.5bn infantry fighting vehicles, have been ordered with specialised counter-drone systems."
It went on to quote - "Former 1st Armoured Regiment commander Fergus McLachlan said the Australian Defence Force was “massively underdone” in air defence capabilities right across the services. There is clearly a choke point in Defence, particularly in the policymaking areas, as to why we haven’t got armed drones and drone protection."
Even though armed drones have been around for a long time and making a huge impact in Ukraine and the Red Sea, progress in dealing with this issue in the ADF seems to be progessing at a glacial pace.
Link - behind paywall
It went on to quote - "Former 1st Armoured Regiment commander Fergus McLachlan said the Australian Defence Force was “massively underdone” in air defence capabilities right across the services. There is clearly a choke point in Defence, particularly in the policymaking areas, as to why we haven’t got armed drones and drone protection."
Even though armed drones have been around for a long time and making a huge impact in Ukraine and the Red Sea, progress in dealing with this issue in the ADF seems to be progessing at a glacial pace.
Link - behind paywall
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Is it fair to suggest that the technology and capabilities of drone systems are expanding ,so that ordering current developments in this area may become dated ,and that the A.D.F through D.S.T.O or the current body should identify what is feasible going forward and meets A.D.F needs .?