Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Redlands18]

If they were to go with the AW139M variant at any stage, that would be deployable.

But shouldn't the ADF use the AW-119 Koala?

 

[ngatimozart]

But shouldn't the ADF use the AW-119 Koala?

Would that be the Drop Bear variant?

 

[vonnoobie]

Would that be the Drop Bear variant?

The UN has regulations about deploying weapons of mass destruction mate.

 

[ddxx]

Are there any (public) plans for additional amphibious/marine warfare battalions?

Currently, all I can find is the 2nd Battalion?

 

[old faithful]

There was a plan to re structure as plan Beersheba was going to be scrapped.
Not sure now, but I imagine with the plan to boost the Artillary, there will be a need for more infantry, maybe reserves to support them.
Arty will be getting SPGs, SAM'S, both NAASAM and probably a Patriot type as well, and also MRLS, so big plans for them.

Forgot the shore based SSM as well.

 

[Stampede]

Are there any (public) plans for additional amphibious/marine warfare battalions?

Currently, all I can find is the 2nd Battalion?

I think Takao mentioned some big changes re structure and new kit.
To add to Old faithfuls list, there was some talk of additional Amphibious capacity in Darwin.
Others in the know could advise.
I suspect they are still working it out.


Regards S

 

[Terran]

Thales developing new 6.8mm close combat weapon - Frag Out! Magazine

In collaboration with Army Headquarters (AHQ), Thales Australia has revealed to DTR that it is developing a next-generation individual weapon chambered in 6.8mm calibre. Army Headquarters wants to see the local development of a domestic 6.8mm weapon system that will be able to compete against...

fragoutmag.com

So Thales Australia has adapted the AUG design in hopes of chambering an iteration of the 6.8x51mm round to complete for the next Australian Service rifle.

 

[ngatimozart]

Thales developing new 6.8mm close combat weapon - Frag Out! Magazine

In collaboration with Army Headquarters (AHQ), Thales Australia has revealed to DTR that it is developing a next-generation individual weapon chambered in 6.8mm calibre. Army Headquarters wants to see the local development of a domestic 6.8mm weapon system that will be able to compete against...

fragoutmag.com

So Thales Australia has adapted the AUG design in hopes of chambering an iteration of the 6.8x51mm round to complete for the next Australian Service rifle.

Makes sense. But they will have to decide what type of 6.8 x 51mm round they are going to use. The US are looking at four different options:

• Traditional brass cartridge.
• Polymer cartridge.
• Cased telescope.
• Light steel cartridge.

Are they going to be using the same projectile as the US Army? Or are they developing their own projectile?

 

[Milne Bay]

Makes sense. But they will have to decide what type of 6.8 x 51mm round they are going to use. The US are looking at four different options:

• Traditional brass cartridge.
• Polymer cartridge.
• Cased telescope.
• Light steel cartridge.

Are they going to be using the same projectile as the US Army? Or are they developing their own projectile?

Looks like they are working on a brassless design. Whether it is original or a licensed product - not sure.
As part of the CCFOW work, Thales is developing a single-piece 6.8mm cartridge made from a material “more advanced than traditional brass” and better able to cope with higher pressures. The gun will be of bullpup configuration with specifications drawn from the NGSW program, including a maximum length of 965mm, maximum weight of 4.1kg minus the magazine and an integrated suppressor capability. These activities are currently in the detailed design stage.
MB

 

[ngatimozart]

Looks like they are working on a brassless design. Whether it is original or a licensed product - not sure.
As part of the CCFOW work, Thales is developing a single-piece 6.8mm cartridge made from a material “more advanced than traditional brass” and better able to cope with higher pressures. The gun will be of bullpup configuration with specifications drawn from the NGSW program, including a maximum length of 965mm, maximum weight of 4.1kg minus the magazine and an integrated suppressor capability. These activities are currently in the detailed design stage.
MB

Thanks. The polymer design that the US is investigating looks promising. Anyway the Task and purpose video below looks at squad weapons, but the ammo also.

 

[Terran]

A while back I posted that Sig also competing in NGSW was partnering to offer their rifle to Australia.

https://defencetechnologyreview.partica.online/defence-technology-review/dtr-june-2021/flipbook/14/

Okay Summery Sig’s NGSW family is being apparently offered for Australia’s Land 159 trenche 2 by Aquaterro. That program isn’t slated for another 3 years so it wouldn’t surprise me is more NGSW pitches recycle into it down the road.

Land 159 is split in 3 parts Tranche 1 is active set to be awarded in the next year or so for a number of Sniper rifles, scopes, Ghillie suit. As well as Knives, Pistol, PDW, “Low Profile weapons systems” (not sure what that is supposed to be if they are to adopt a PDW? Pocket pistol?Bodyguards SMG?), Shotgun and Breaching system.

Trench 2 will include replacing Current issue Styer AUG derivatives along with FN Minimi and MAG 58 as well as heavier machine guns, mortars, Rocket launchers and Grenades. Sig/Aquaterro are targeting the small arms side with the SPEAR, MG 68, and MG 338. Likely with the MCX SPEAR aimed for the “Close Combatant Assault Rifle”, MG 6.8 the Light Machine gun and the MG 338 for the Medium Machine gun requirements.
The SPEAR and 68 use a US DOD designed projectile in a Sig composite Metalic cartridge of steel tin and Brass to reduce ammo weight well allowing higher pressures. The 6.8x51mm round being derived from 7.62x51mm NATO. The aim being a weapon family with longer range and penetration vs 5.56mm. The MG338 is a Medium Machine gun (Currently not part of the Army NGSW but under evaluation for the USSOCOM and USMC) loaded with .338 Norma magnum offering more mobility than M2, more range than FN Mag (M240).

Truevelocity another Whom is also partnered for the US NGSW program as a Competitor with GDLS & Beretta announced last year they were involved in some capacity with Tranche 1. Australian LAND 159 — True Velocity

Tranche 3 is looking for a light weight automatic grenade launcher, less lethal munitions, command detonated munitions, unmanned weapons systems and loitering munitions.

so basically we have now two teams one mostly conventional SIG with composite metallic cartridges and now this.

 

[Redlands18]

A while back I posted that Sig also competing in NGSW was partnering to offer their rifle to Australia.
so basically we have now two teams one mostly conventional SIG with composite metallic cartridges and now this.

One thing you may not be aware of is, DTR is now behind a Paywall was free up to October.

 

[Terran]

So I suppose I should post a secondary source with confirmation on the Sig report. Best I have is two blogs who posted their report.

Aquaterro To Offer SIG Next Gen Weapons To Australian Army

Aquaterro will submit SIG Sauer's new generation of weapons to the Australian Army's Land 159 Tranche 2 program which will select new Close Combat weapons.

www.thefirearmblog.com

Aquaterro To Offer SIG Next Gen Weapons To Australian Army

Aquaterro will submit SIG Sauer's new generation of weapons to the Australian Army's Land 159 Tranche 2 program which will select new Close Combat weapons.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[Stampede]

I found this an interesting trial by Rheinmetall re the Lynx IFV using a rubber track.

Rheinmetall tests composite rubber track on Lynx Infantry Fighting Vehicle - APDR

Rheinmetall, the largest supplier of military vehicles to the Australian Defence Force has successfully completed demonstration trials of the Soucy Composite Rubber Track (CRT) system on the Lynx KF41 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV).

asiapacificdefencereporter.com

I'm sure a lot of things will decide the outcome of Land 400 phase Three; but suggest rubber tracks have a future and in a two horse race, you wouldn't want to not offer this option.



Regards S

 

[cdxbow]

After the initial conversion of 2 M113 to optionally unmanned configuration a couple of years ago, not much more was heard and I was disappointed that the project seem to go no where. I was pleased to see a total of 20 have been converted by BAE and are undergoing testing -Autonomous M113 variants put to the test - Defence Connect Good to see they have enough to 'play with' in numbers.

 

[Shanesworld]

After the initial conversion of 2 M113 to optionally unmanned configuration a couple of years ago, not much more was heard and I was disappointed that the project seem to go no where. I was pleased to see a total of 20 have been converted by BAE and are undergoing testing -Autonomous M113 variants put to the test - Defence Connect Good to see they have enough to 'play with' in numbers.

I would love to see the same with unimog mounted mlrs. Someone (maybe Denel/ South africa) mocked it up but saw it ages ago somewhere but no where since.

 

[Unric]

With the surplus of M113 hulls, it would be an interesting combo if you could combine the unmanned tech with a spike nlos conversion. Spike NLOS (EXACTOR) - Think Defence
Be very handy having that kind of firepower at your call and less issues if you lose some to counterbattery.

 

[Bob53]

With the surplus of M113 hulls, it would be an interesting combo if you could combine the unmanned tech with a spike nlos conversion. Spike NLOS (EXACTOR) - Think Defence
Be very handy having that kind of firepower at your call and less issues if you lose some to counterbattery.

The SPIKE NLOS is a really interesting capability with that range and being able to be manoeuvred on a light vehicle. Anyone know what they cost?

 

[ngatimozart]

The SPIKE NLOS is a really interesting capability with that range and being able to be manoeuvred on a light vehicle. Anyone know what they cost?

More than our beer allowance. Of all weapons systems, the Israeli ones appear to be the hardest to find costs for. In my own search for weapons cost figures, I have found ground based systems difficult to find reliable and verifiable figures for. Except for US ones and even then they can be confusing.

 

[ADMk2]

With the surplus of M113 hulls, it would be an interesting combo if you could combine the unmanned tech with a spike nlos conversion. Spike NLOS (EXACTOR) - Think Defence
Be very handy having that kind of firepower at your call and less issues if you lose some to counterbattery.

The same M113 hulls that are within years of being phased out? That are so obsolete they are undeployable?

M113 was a great vehicle in it’s day. It needs to be retired.

Spike NLOS can go on virtually anything from ‘dune buggies’ to light armoured vehicles and helicopters.

In an Australian context, the rear tray of a Hawkei on the face of it, appears ideal…