Arab Air Forces

[swerve]

Perhaps, you're right! But I'm sure you know that the IDF doesn't give combat pilot info out. As I said, I don't have a clue who has the best pilots, but comparing some names with some names doesn't go far in proving much... other than one of the names (a person) died when the shuttle exploded on re-entry. I don't get the connection between that and a good AF pilot. But if Israel only has eight (well 7) pilots with 1000 hours, then I'm not sure I'd rank even them as an AF.

I suspect the low numbers are because of the secrecy you mention.

One interesting thing from that list: Venezuela, & to a lesser extent Pakistan, have very top-heavy lists, full of generals. I'd put that down as a bad sign. Suggests a lot of vanity flying. What are generals doing racking up fighter hours? They aren't doing their jobs, & they're using up precious flying hours that should be flown by the blokes who'd actually do the fighting.

 

[T-95]

I believe it is pointless comparing these air forces. First of all, Egypt and Saudi Arabia will never fight eachother. The other country is of course Israel. Egypt/Saudi Arabia will NOT get in a war with Israel for one reason-the United States. The U.S. has bases in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and also has relatively good relations with these countries (oil is a powerful thing). We also have weapons stockpiles in Israel and of course have good relations with them. We wouldn't have bases/stockpiles in these countries if we weren't friendly with them. We also wouldn't sell Saudi Arabia F-15's and AWACS if we weren't allies. These countries would never risk relations with the U.S., because it would spell the end of their militaries. Another significant reason is big bad Iran. Both the Arabs and Jews have historically not been fond of the Persians and Saudis have even stated that Iran is a greater threat than Israel.
Sorry, can't post URL, but i'm not lying.

So, if anything, the Jews and Arabs will be united (shock) against Iran.

They NEVER had bases in Egypt and they we're told to leave Saudi in 2003 by the new Saudi king. Egypt's relations (and to some extent US' Saudi relations) have been on slide recently (ever since the Iraq war really). And since you like quoting Saudi officials the Saudi king said in the Arab League summit in Riyadh that America's war in Iraq is illegal and that they should leave. With all the recent trade agreements and arms purchases Saudi and Egypt have been doing with Russia and China I'd say they're trying to distance themselves from US. I think its good to have strong relation with the US and I think we should have even stronger ties with Israel but you should never be this close to one country, I think the Arab leadership realize this now and are trying to distance themselves.

As for "the end of their militaries quote" , Saudi and Egypt can just buy British, French and Russian. The Russian arms would be given at huge discount for Egypt to restore it as Russian ally as we've seen with MiG-29 deal. Saudi already bought Typhoons after the US didn't sell it the F-16E/F. Mikoyan said it's having negotiations with Egypt on the delivery of a large batch MiG-29's and this was probably done for the F-15's Egypt wasn't allowed to buy.

As for the Iran thing. Iran's president was in the UAE a couple of months ago calling for Egypt to restore ties with Iran becuase it would be great for the "Umma" (Muslim world) and Egypt said that restoring ties with Iran would be a step forward and also good for the Muslim world. Saudi doesn't like Iran and will probably dislike Iran for while.

 

[Brandon]

Wrong. We still have troops in Saudi Arabia training in a program called the United States Military Training Mission (USMTM). Can't post URL's, but read about the USMTM and Egypt's relations with the U.S. on globalsecurity.

We still support and train troops in these Arab states. Again, we wouldn't have sold S.A. the AWACS if we weren't confident in our relation as allies. So what if the Saudi king said we shouldn't be in Iraq. That's what most people think in this country, too. So, if we ever give up helping these countries, their militaries would be screwed. Yeah, we all know how reliable those Russians are when it comes to training. Just because these are Arab countries doesn't mean we aren't friendly with them.

 

[T-95]

Wrong. We still have troops in Saudi Arabia training in a program called the United States Military Training Mission (USMTM). Can't post URL's, but read about the USMTM and Egypt's relations with the U.S. on globalsecurity.

We still support and train troops in these Arab states. Again, we wouldn't have sold S.A. the AWACS if we weren't confident in our relation as allies. So what if the Saudi king said we shouldn't be in Iraq. That's what most people think in this country, too. So, if we ever give up helping these countries, their militaries would be screwed. Yeah, we all know how reliable those Russians are when it comes to training. Just because these are Arab countries doesn't mean we aren't friendly with them.

Yes, please tell me where you read your country has a military base here(Egypt). Because I know for a fact you asked us and we said no. And please tell me how Egypt's military would be screwed. The military aid you give us is made so we don't have to spend any of our money on military (national budget is $25 billion which is not much but we used to spend half of that on military no problem without the US). Egypt's military training is all done in Egypt. Egypt has good relations with the US but we wouldn't die if we didn't have good relations.If we had Russian arms the Russians wouldn't need to train us just in the beginning for weapons systems like the MiG-29 and such but then it would be all Egypt's training which adopted western style training after the we bought the F-16's. The US troops here and in Saudi are to train new soldiers again as an obligation to us for supporting you.

Tell me what would happen to the US in the ME if it didn't have the support of Egypt and Saudi(the two most influential states in the ME)??? Iran wants Egypt as an ally, Russia wants Egypt as an ally, China wants both Saudi and Egypt as allies, so tell me what would we lose if we stop supporting you (besides the useless aid which you cut 200 million dollars from this year and training which we can do on our own)?

 

[Brandon]

I can't post URL's, but we use ports in Egypt for our ships and protect Saudi Arabia's oil through the U.S. Sixth Fleet. We are still friends and I don't know why you want to lose that relationship. Yeah, and you say the aid is useless, totally ridiculous. We give you the second most military aid after Israel.

 

[T-95]

I can't post URL's, but we use ports in Egypt for our ships and protect Saudi Arabia's oil through the U.S. Sixth Fleet. We are still friends and I don't know why you want to lose that relationship. Yeah, and you say the aid is useless, totally ridiculous. We give you the second most military aid after Israel.

The aid is useless because if you stop the aid right now we can just spend our own money. It's not like our military would starve we would just spend our own money and buy Russian arms. And no i said in the very beginning I think we should have strong relations with the US just not this strong. You use our port because we give you permission. You keep trying to make the point that Egypt would be in major trouble if you didn't support us and that Egypt needs the US for its survival when that isn't true. Egypt lets you use the canal which you was necessary for you to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. 8% of the worlds shipping traffic passes through our canal and two-thirds of Europe's oil passes through our canal. Saudi invests $700 billion dollars in your economy nearly 12th of US's GDP so all Saudi has to do to make your economy crash is ignore you. You need Egypt and Saudi more than they need you(maybe Saudi for protection) or just as much as they need you.

 

[Waylander]

Hmmm, for me it looks like 2 billion US$ less a year could hurt a country with Egypts economy.

But it would "just" hurt and not end in the armed forces starving to death.

 

[Brandon]

Ok. Lets just agree that we both need eachother and anyways, we don't want to be enemies, we want to be friendly with eachother. If each of us have what the other needs, it is a great basis to be allies, which I still think we are.

 

[T-95]

Ok. Lets just agree that we both need eachother and anyways, we don't want to be enemies, we want to be friendly with eachother. If each of us have what the other needs, it is a great basis to be allies, which I still think we are.

Agreed. I just said this because you made it sound like Egypt would face dire consequences if it wasn't a US ally. It's good to have good relations with everybody.

 

[T-95]

AL-41F's are going into Flankers by 2015 to make them supercruise. It will also incorporate LO tech like reduced IR signature and RCS and it will have TVC. Would this be a problem for a plane like the F-35 if this was on a plane like the Su-30MKA???

 

[contedicavour]

Sure Egypt could turn to massive Russian procurement, but it would mean several years of adaptation (training, maintenance, etc). Just like at the end of the '70s when the armed forces rapidly switched from ex USSR to US material. Quite a massive and expensive effort.
Besides from an interoperability standpoint these days it's more practical to be equipped with Western material in the international exercises, etc.
Since you're in Egypt may be you can answer a question I also posted elsewhere : which F16s in the EAF use AIM120A/B ? Apparently you have SAMs using AIM120 in Egypt, so I would be surprised if no air to air AIM120 had been procured ?

cheers

 

[nero]

Growler news ???

Sure Egypt could turn to massive Russian procurement, but it would mean several years of adaptation (training, maintenance, etc). Just like at the end of the '70s when the armed forces rapidly switched from ex USSR to US material. Quite a massive and expensive effort.
Besides from an interoperability standpoint these days it's more practical to be equipped with Western material in the international exercises, etc.
Since you're in Egypt may be you can answer a question I also posted elsewhere : which F16s in the EAF use AIM120A/B ? Apparently you have SAMs using AIM120 in Egypt, so I would be surprised if no air to air AIM120 had been procured ?

cheers

Any news about egypt acquiring the SA-21-growler from russia ???

or has that buzz gone down of late ??

i mean, the growler can take out even the F-22s.


.

 

[T-95]

Sure Egypt could turn to massive Russian procurement, but it would mean several years of adaptation (training, maintenance, etc). Just like at the end of the '70s when the armed forces rapidly switched from ex USSR to US material. Quite a massive and expensive effort.
Besides from an interoperability standpoint these days it's more practical to be equipped with Western material in the international exercises, etc.
Since you're in Egypt may be you can answer a question I also posted elsewhere : which F16s in the EAF use AIM120A/B ? Apparently you have SAMs using AIM120 in Egypt, so I would be surprised if no air to air AIM120 had been procured ?

cheers

We don't have AIM-120 A2A. Israel blocked the sale.

Any news about egypt acquiring the SA-21-growler from russia ???

or has that buzz gone down of late ??

i mean, the growler can take out even the F-22s.


.

Nope. The US is trying to sell the PAC-3 to Egypt and they are very enthusiastic about it. I'd say it because they don't want Egypt to buy the S-300/400 which Israel already said was one of it's concerns. If we switch to Russian arms (very hard to do, as stated by contedicavour) by 2009 we might buy the Growler (unlikely ,but with recent events ,maybe).

 

[metro]

We don't have AIM-120 A2A. Israel blocked the sale.



Nope. The US is trying to sell the PAC-3 to Egypt and they are very enthusiastic about it. I'd say it because they don't want Egypt to buy the S-300/400 which Israel already said was one of it's concerns. If we switch to Russian arms (very hard to do, as stated by contedicavour) by 2009 we might buy the Growler (unlikely ,but with recent events ,maybe).

It's definitely true that Egypt could switch to "all Russian made systems." But, as it was pointed out earlier, it would be a nightmare to switch: logistically and operationally. Just a quick note, the US and others in the west probably won't sell Egypt new (or advanced) weapons. The basic reason is (I think you mentioned it earlier--Iran trying to win Egypt's support... which many have said has alredy happened), the US is not convinced that there is any real stability in Egypt today. If Mubarak were 50yrs/old, I don't think there would be a problem. However, Mubarak in Egypt, just like Abdullah in SA, are older and the US sees the "infighting" for, "The Day After." The US is pretty much clueless as to who will take over, while Mubarak wants his Son to take over, the US is far from convinced that this is what will happen. If Egypt loses a moderate leader and a "radical" places himself in power, the US does not want it's weapons in the hands of "radicals."

IMO, this is the reason that both the Saudis and Egypt are not getting usual treatment today. An interesting note is that Prince Bandar just put his house in Aspen CO. up for sale for $150,000,000 (it's worth far more, but he "wanted to keep the price low, to make sure people didn't think he was living too extravagantly" ). I don't think he needs the money, but I have a feeling he won't be spending a great deal of time in the US anymore.

The other thing with Egypt is, the US can basically turn all systems off on American-Egyptian Military systems. Egypt would have to spend a fortune to build it's military again, to today's specs. The threat of the US/West not selling weapons to Egypt, is actually more of a statement to any who might want to follow Mubarak. There's a subtle message that if his son does not replace Mubarak, any radical gov't will be treated like "Hamas."

Congress cutting off some money to Egypt isn't a big deal, it's more of a political statement/message. If all mentioned above is cleared up, the US will add the money withheld or give Egypt a "credit."

As for basing, google "US military bases in Egypt," if there is a problem with "getting returns for this," just ask, and i'll do it (post it here) as soon as I get a chance.

Peace

 

[metro]

We don't have AIM-120 A2A. Israel blocked the sale.



Nope. The US is trying to sell the PAC-3 to Egypt and they are very enthusiastic about it. I'd say it because they don't want Egypt to buy the S-300/400 which Israel already said was one of it's concerns. If we switch to Russian arms (very hard to do, as stated by contedicavour) by 2009 we might buy the Growler (unlikely ,but with recent events ,maybe).

Actually, because Israel is your neighbor, the PAC-3 is not all you'd be getting, you'd get integration with most of the systems in the gulf as well as in israel. Instead of your own small umbrella, the PAC-3 and other components allow egypt to be covered by a large umbrella/shield.

 

[ahussains]

Which Arab Country U guys think have a fine Airforce in both forms equipments and Traning ?

 

[radiosilence]

The other thing with Egypt is, the US can basically turn all systems off on American-Egyptian Military systems.....


Peace

This is a very interesting statement. I have heard people make statements like this before and i am wondering how is this possible. Can you elaborate?

 

[T-95]

The other thing with Egypt is, the US can basically turn all systems off on American-Egyptian Military systems.....


Peace

Can you provide a link to your claims. If not can we keep all the conspiracy theories out of the forum. Again the topic is about the Best Arab Air Force.

 

[contedicavour]

We don't have AIM-120 A2A. Israel blocked the sale.



.

Oh-ho. I do understand the frustration leading to buying MIG29SMT with R73/77 then. Although I would have preferred simplifying logistics and updating the Mirage 2000 instead to -5 standard with Mica. Then I would have started adding Rafale or Typhoons once Meteor is available.
Being one of the largest users of F16s in the world and not having anything better than AIM7 is a huge issue.

cheers

 

[Izzy1]

radiosilence

This is a very interesting statement. I have heard people make statements like this before and i am wondering how is this possible. Can you elaborate?

T-95

Can you provide a link to your claims. If not can we keep all the conspiracy theories out of the forum.

Metro is right - simply cut the maintanence supply chain and technical support. The only Arab air forces that can withstand the US State Department are Syria and the Yemen. And lets be honest, they ain't much to talk about either. Camp David and Gulf War I came at a price gents.