New Tanks for Canadian Forces

[Mikestro]

according to defenseindustrydaily: Tanks for the Lesson: Leopards, too, for Canada

"Canada's tank buy includes 20 Leopard 2A6-NL, and 80 Leopard 2A4s" from Holland and "The 20 Leopard 2A6-NLs will reportedly be converted to Leopard 2A6Ms". As well as leasing 20 German Leopard 2A6M for deployment to Afghanistan.

Nice to see CF upgrading their Armor. I did not like the Idea of CF switching to all wheeled MGS to replace the tank fleet. As far as I know the CF are the only ones with Tanks in Afghanistan (except some Afgan reminent T- tanks.)

Just goes to show you that the GW2 and Afganistan prove the role of Armor is not dead.

 

[Waylander]

Man, I hope you also buy the 20 A6M leased from us.
They will we totally worn out after the A-stan operation and it maybe better for us to just upgrade 20 A4s from our stock than to rebuild the wreckages we are goint to get back from the Canucks.

In the end I wish you good luck with the Leos.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Nice little deal. O_O

 

[Soner1980]

Why 20 and not 298? Canada is a big country. Look Kazachstan, (remember Borat) it has 17 mln population but operates some 2500 MBT's with it's 160,000 men strong armed forces.

Canada has the Leo-1s modernized to a very new kind of tank. The Leo-2's are not for a couple of Afgan time usage I think...

 

[Waylander]

Why should they? These tanks in the number they buy them fit very well into their general concept. They are more expeditionary (Canada is for sure one of the less threatened countries on earth). They are not going to have a new fulda gap with these tanks.

Those tanks are going to fullfill nearly the same role like the new Aussie Abrams do.
They are for support the infantry and give the canadian a limited mech warfare capability.

How many of the 2500 Kazachstan tanks do you think are operational? And how many of are usefull during an engagement against anything else than another low tech country?

And the 20 A6M they lease from us (And I hope they never give them back!!!) are an urgent procurement due to the situation in A-stan. They offer a better protection especially against mines/IEDs due to the M upgrade, a better firepower especially when they use german or swedish HEs. They are better suited for hot weather as they have shown during exercises and on daily operations in Spain on some of the hottest places on earth.

 

[eckherl]

Why should they? These tanks in the number they buy them fit very well into their general concept. They are more expeditionary (Canada is for sure one of the less threatened countries on earth). They are not going to have a new fulda gap with these tanks.

Those tanks are going to fullfill nearly the same role like the new Aussie Abrams do.
They are for support the infantry and give the canadian a limited mech warfare capability.

How many of the 2500 Kazachstan tanks do you think are operational? And how many of are usefull during an engagement against anything else than another low tech country?

And the 20 A6M they lease from us (And I hope they never give them back!!!) are an urgent procurement due to the situation in A-stan. They offer a better protection especially against mines/IEDs due to the M upgrade, a better firepower especially when they use german or swedish HEs. They are better suited for hot weather as they have shown during exercises and on daily operations in Spain on some of the hottest places on earth.

Canada is only a hop and a skip away from me, I cannot waite to go see a LEO2A6 up close, maybe with enough cash they will let me bust a couple caps, AHH the chances of that happening are real slim but it would be fun just to smell that ammunition cordite.

 

[Waylander]

Good luck.

After my last ride with a T-55 I hope getting a chance to drive a BMP-1 this summer.

Once in my live driving an Abrams is also a really big wish of me. I find this bike like steering wheel really interesting.

 

[eckherl]

Good luck.

After my last ride with a T-55 I hope getting a chance to drive a BMP-1 this summer.

Once in my live driving an Abrams is also a really big wish of me. I find this bike like steering wheel really interesting.

What was the suspension like on the T-55, it had to be a real shock compared to a LEO2.

PS - if you get the chance to drive a Abrams be real careful with the brakes, she can stop real fast and I have some scares on my face to prove that.

 

[Waylander]

Jup, the T was a bit slow and rough to ride and the stearing sticks were a real pain in the ass when you are used to the comfortable Leo. But nevertheless it was a really good experience.

As to the breaks.
The Leo 2 breaks as good as a Porsche so I don't think there is a real difference to the Abrams.

 

[RubiconNZ]

A good purchase indeed, it just goes to show what a change in leadership can do if you had said 3 years ago Canada would buy new tanks, C-17's andextra Chinooks I would of scoffed, fantastic news for the Canadian army.

 

[Soner1980]

Ok, you guys are able to drive in other countries tanks too. I got the chance of one silly M48, what they call high tech inside, bad tech left outside old clumpsy tank, also called self propelled 105mm anti-tank gun with machine guns :lol3 Turkey has 1 M1A2 SEP, and also 1 Leopard-2A6E and T-84. Left from the MBT tender...

No T-55, Leo-1 and 2 or even an M60A3 for me. Was a big dream for me but they told me that I can forget about to drive in even the Turkish M60 tanks also available in the mid-southeast on the Syrian border, only watch and look inside . But today, the Sabra-T (a.k.a. Mk.3) and the Leo-2A4 will push the old M48T1 aside till the first batch of 250 Turkish MBT will roll out of the factory line in 2012. Only small numbers of the T2 will stay for terrorist actions or inner Anatolian units. The other 1300+ along with the 1000 M48A2 and A3 will be all molten to one big piece of steel and some are converted to a remote controlled mine clearer and other (78 M48T5's). This 90mm M48's were still used for terrorists only. (see my avatar, M48A2C in snow)

But the Canadian forces are only a small, professional for NATO peace keeping operations? Ok, that good for the defense budget...

The Kazach army has roughly 2000 tanks bought from other countries like Russia and Ukraine. When the wall fall down in Berlin, they had only 500 tanks. To the end of the 1990's they had 2000 tanks and the year 2002 they had 2200 tanks. It's still operational or not I don't know. Rumors include (Federal American Scientists estimate) that Kazachstan also bought the Zolfiqar tanks from Iran.

 

[Waylander]

And what kind of tanks do they have?

The canadians are for sure focussing on oversea deployments due to their geographical safety. But this doesn't mean they are totally focussed on pure peace-keeping missions.
Patricipating in high intense conflicts is also possible with their force strcuture.

 

[Soner1980]

Here is the link were I got info on nations owning weapons:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/centralasia/kazak-ground-equipment.htm

Is this a good site? I want to know...

 

[swerve]

...

The Kazach army has roughly 2000 tanks bought from other countries like Russia and Ukraine. When the wall fall down in Berlin, they had only 500 tanks. To the end of the 1990's they had 2000 tanks and the year 2002 they had 2200 tanks. It's still operational or not I don't know. Rumors include (Federal American Scientists estimate) that Kazachstan also bought the Zolfiqar tanks from Iran.

The IISS estimated the number of tanks in the Kazakh army in 2003 at just over 1000, & in 2006 at 930. In 2003, they said

"In 1991 the former Soviet Union transferred some 2680 T-64/-72a, 2428 AFVs and 6900 artillery pieces to storage bases in Kazakhstan. This equipment is under Kazakh control, but has deteriorated considerably. An equipment destruction programme has begun".

Note: they weren't bought from anyone, they were shipped there while Kazakhstan was still part of the USSR, to keep them out of the scope of the CFE treaty. They were taken over by Kazakhstan when it became independent in late 1991, but most were never operational with the Kazakh army. I can't imagine why Kazakhstan would buy Zolfiqars, when it had far more tanks than it could operate.

In February 2007 the IISS no longer made any mention of those tanks, etc. I think they've probably all gone to Lakshmi Mittal by now, to be melted down.

 

[Soner1980]

Yes now you are talking, you are right. Azerbaijan has bought many tanks and artillery from Kazachstan. Especially T-72's and BMP's. Also some aircraft and helicopters. They will be also sold to many other nations too.

But maybe they field just the number you had quoted and the other 1200 are in reserve stocks when 'the big war' will rise. Am I right?

 

[Waylander]

Junk rusting away in some depot is not what I would call a usefull wartime reserve.

You have to consider that many numbers of the material of 2nd and 3rd world countries is highly overrated. Operational numbers and the capability to really use them on a full scale combined arms operation is much much lower than pure numbers tell you.

 

[swerve]

Yes now you are talking, you are right. Azerbaijan has bought many tanks and artillery from Kazachstan. Especially T-72's and BMP's. Also some aircraft and helicopters. They will be also sold to many other nations too.

But maybe they field just the number you had quoted and the other 1200 are in reserve stocks when 'the big war' will rise. Am I right?

If the IISS (far from infallible, but a much more reliable source than Global Security IMO) is right, the "other 1200" (plus another 1000 or more) were in open storage with no maintenance from 1991 until 2002 or so, when they started being scrapped. By then, scrapping them would not have been a change of status, but recognition of their condition. The fact that the IISS no longer lists them as in storage suggests that scrapping is now complete. Hence my reference to Lakshmi Mittal, whose firm owns the former state steel mills in Kazakhstan, & has been using them to turn the large quantities of scrap iron & steel in Central Asia into new steel for sale to China.

 

[kinggodzilla87]

good for Canada

 

[Norm]

Good run down on the purchase.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/12/leopard-tanks-070412.html

 

[Ares]

In my opinion Canada depends too much on foreign militaries for its equipment instead of buying new tanks from other countries it should go and design its own tanks like India did with its Arjun.