New Tanks for Canadian Forces
- Thread starter Mikestro
- Start date
Even India`s Arjun has turned into a debacle for them, thus the reason for going with T-90`s. it would be alot cheaper as mentioned by Waylander to purchase what is already out there and Germany will roll out the red carpet to get this deal. Canada will be getting one of the best offensive tanks in the world with the LEO 2 A6.
In any case, even IF Canada will manage to design its own tank - it will still have to rely on foreign produced components. Look on so-called "indian" tank Arjun - 3/4 of that is produced NOT in India. The same case will be with Canada... So in the end, Canada will still remain depended from foreign countries. And all these moneys and troubles for what?
Yes - you are correct, plus you most likely buy 2 - 3 export tanks like the LEO series for example versus one of your own factory roll outs.
That really is a bummer, does Germany at least get to sell them spare components/parts along with mainguns and ammunition.
Jup, spares, ammo and special maintenance contracts are still in the hands of KMW and Rheinmetall. As long as I know we even sell a big portion of spares to the countries which produce some of their new Leos (Spain and Greece) in country.
And KMW and Rheinmetall are going to be the ones which upgrade the A6s and A4s Canada into anything they want.
The A4s defenitely need an upgrade if you want to make them competitive and even the A6s could use some upgrades because they are the same like ours. This means no battlefield management system, no new gunners sight/TI, no extra hull armor, no extra top armor and no M upgrade like the A6M we lease to them.
The extra hull armor (much needed to protect the hull ammo storage) and the M upgrade against mines/IEDs are the most important upgrades in my eyes when I look for what kind of work the Canucks mostly buy the Leos.
And KMW and Rheinmetall are going to be the ones which upgrade the A6s and A4s Canada into anything they want.
The A4s defenitely need an upgrade if you want to make them competitive and even the A6s could use some upgrades because they are the same like ours. This means no battlefield management system, no new gunners sight/TI, no extra hull armor, no extra top armor and no M upgrade like the A6M we lease to them.
The extra hull armor (much needed to protect the hull ammo storage) and the M upgrade against mines/IEDs are the most important upgrades in my eyes when I look for what kind of work the Canucks mostly buy the Leos.
Then maybe long term it will be a good business move by KMW and Rheinmetall. It will be interesting to see how well the LEO 2`s operate in the Afghanistan environment, but I do not see any dependability issues though.
They have been tested and performed very well during hot environments in Spain by the danish forces and (naturally) during daily service with the spanish forces.
So heat is no problem. This was the main problem with the Leo 1 in A-stan.
Add to this a much improved armor protection, firepower and agility. And they are newer so maintenance goes down a little bit.
It will be interesting to see what kind of ammo they are going to use. Old and cheaper MZ (HEAT) ammo from our stocks, swedish HEs or german HEs.
The swedish HEs are cheaper because they are in fact a 120mm mortar HE warhead on a L44 propelling charge while the german HE is a complete new design and features programmable fuze.
Or maybe US MPAT but this would IMHO the worst choice. Not cheap but still not a real HE. And a real HE is what is needed in A-stan.
And the Leopard IIA6M looks meaner than a Leopard 1C2.
So heat is no problem. This was the main problem with the Leo 1 in A-stan.
Add to this a much improved armor protection, firepower and agility. And they are newer so maintenance goes down a little bit.
It will be interesting to see what kind of ammo they are going to use. Old and cheaper MZ (HEAT) ammo from our stocks, swedish HEs or german HEs.
The swedish HEs are cheaper because they are in fact a 120mm mortar HE warhead on a L44 propelling charge while the german HE is a complete new design and features programmable fuze.
Or maybe US MPAT but this would IMHO the worst choice. Not cheap but still not a real HE. And a real HE is what is needed in A-stan.
And the Leopard IIA6M looks meaner than a Leopard 1C2.
Correction: the Leopard IIA6M looks meaner than any other tank....
And the Leopard IIA6M looks meaner than a Leopard 1C2.
But it's still cheaper to sending your own Leos to A-stan with Bundeswher
To make you happy, Poland is negotiating purchase additional 123 Leo 2A4 to equip 34 Armored Cav Brig from 11 Armored Cav Division, so will be the only tank type in division.
Bumar is close to sign an a agreement with KWM about modernization and maintenance of all Polish Leos. Guns and powerpacks for KWM, other things to Bumar.
Ah, don't begin with our government decisions in A-stan. Just yesterday the Afghani government asked for our instructors (19 soldiers) to stay with the infantry bn they trained in the north and which is now going to the south.
We refused...
Now they are getting american instructors. Very nice to confront green troops during their first combat deployment with different instructors (Which means different ways of operation).
Instead we send 6 public affairs soldiers in a Dingo with attached louspeakers into the south and 3 for evaluation of possible areas of operations for the tank bn we train in the north (Yeah right, this makes 9 additional soldiers for the south!!!!).
As to the new polish purchase. I hope you are paying a real price this time.
We refused...
Now they are getting american instructors. Very nice to confront green troops during their first combat deployment with different instructors (Which means different ways of operation).
Instead we send 6 public affairs soldiers in a Dingo with attached louspeakers into the south and 3 for evaluation of possible areas of operations for the tank bn we train in the north (Yeah right, this makes 9 additional soldiers for the south!!!!).
As to the new polish purchase. I hope you are paying a real price this time.
You didn't read the thread, did you?
We lease them 20 Leopard IIA6M together with training spare parts and training.
The reason for this is that we can have them available really fast (And the improved IED/mine protection is important in A-stan).
After this Canada is going to purchase their Leo IIs from the Netherlands. Some A6s and some more A4s. No final decision about upgrading the A6s and A4s or converting them to support vehicles (bridgelayers, engineers vehicles,...)
Man who was so dumb to think that the Leos we lease to them are in any worthy condition after the A-stan adventure...
We lease them 20 Leopard IIA6M together with training spare parts and training.
The reason for this is that we can have them available really fast (And the improved IED/mine protection is important in A-stan).
After this Canada is going to purchase their Leo IIs from the Netherlands. Some A6s and some more A4s. No final decision about upgrading the A6s and A4s or converting them to support vehicles (bridgelayers, engineers vehicles,...)
Man who was so dumb to think that the Leos we lease to them are in any worthy condition after the A-stan adventure...
Slightly off thread ,but the following photo shows the UK Chally II fitted with remote firing station and smoothbore 120mm tankgun during recent firing trials. One assumes this is the same gun fitted to the leopard's and MIA2's?
http://www.defenceimagedatabase.mod...DBBBA2240C44C1BDD5C922B5C680DF7A5BF9637CDE5C5
http://www.defenceimagedatabase.mod...DBBBA2240C44C1BDD5C922B5C680DF7A5BF9637CDE5C5
Original German Rheinmetall L/55, IIRC. Not the US version (& M1A2 still has L/44, with no plan to change it AFAIK). Slightly modified to fit the Chally.