New Indian Air Force Fighter competition

wp2000

Member
Lca Lsp

Any news on the 8 LCA LSPs?

I remember LSP version started in 2004 and supposed to deliver 8 of them to IAF by the end of 2006. I think the new schedule is the end of 2008. So mathematically every 3 months there should be one LSP delivered to IAF in the year 2007 and 2008 to the new schedule.

Last time I heard LSP1 was doing ground taxing, should be some news by now. LSP should be the one to watch because it's going into IAF's hand and to reach IOC status for LCA.

Thanks
 

chacko

New Member
LSP-1 did Low Speed taxi runs on March 17. After obtaining clearance from Safety Test Review Board and two high speed taxi trials, it's maiden flight should happen within a Month.

But 8 LSPs should be built within this year (2007). Can they achieve the target they set ?

What is the miximum speed of LCA at present (tested or achieved). What is the maximum speed expected at final stage ?
 

kams

New Member
But 8 LSPs should be built within this year (2007). Can they achieve the target they set ?
No, all 8 will not be delivered this year.

What is the miximum speed of LCA at present (tested or achieved). What is the maximum speed expected at final stage ?
Tested - 1.4 Mach. Don't know about the design specs.
 

kams

New Member
Defence Acquisition Council Clears Procurement 126 Mmrca

DEFENCE ACQUISITION COUNCIL CLEARS PROCUREMENT 126 MMRCA

Atlast the long awaited MMRCA acquisition project has been given the clearence by DEFENCE ACQUISITION COUNCIL. With this, RFP will be issued any day now. :)

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by the Defence Minister Shri AK Antony has cleared the process for the procurement of 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force. During its meeting here today, the DAC debated various issues related to the initial purchase, transfer of technology, licensed production and life time maintenance support for the 126 MMRCA and gave the final go-ahead for the project.

In pursuant to the recent assurance given by the Defence Minister for an early issue of the much awaited Request for Proposal (RFP) for the 126 fighter jets, the Ministry of Defence and Indian Air Force officers have been working overtime to scrutinize all aspects of the RFP. In view of the size and operational importance of the likely purchase, the criteria for selecting the final MMRCA contender from amongst some of the best combat aircraft offered by American, Russian and European companies, has been fine tuned. The RFP would contain a selection model that would involve an exhaustive evaluation process as detailed in the Defence Procurement Procedures — 2006.

The proposals from the likely contenders would first be technically evaluated by a professional team to check for compliance with IAF’s operational requirements and other RFP conditions. Extensive field trials would be carried out to evaluate the performance. Finally, the commercial proposal of the vendors, short-listed after technical and field evaluations, would be examined and compared. The aircraft are likely to be in service for over 40 years. The vendors are required to provide a life time support and performance based warranty for the aircraft. MoD officials have confirmed that great care has been taken to ensure that only determinable factors, which do not lend themselves to any subjectivity, are included in the commercial selection model. The selection would be transparent and fair.

The DAC has approved that a majority of the MMRCA would be produced in India under transfer of technology. The vendor finally selected would also b e required to undertake offset obligations in India. It is expected that the ToT and offset contracts would provide a great technological and economic boost to the indigenous defence industries, which would include DPSUs, RURs and other eligible private sector industries. Foreign vendors would be provided great flexibility in effecting tie-up with Indian partners, for this purpose.

There are three guiding principles for this procurement scheme. First, the operational requirements of IAF should be fully met. Second, the selection process should be competitive, fair and transparent, so that best value for money is realized. Lastly, Indian defence industries should get an opportunity to grow to global scales.

With the decks finally cleared, the RFP is planned to be issued in the near future
Earlier reports indicated that offset component is likely to be inrceased to 50% of contract value. The total contract is worth around US$10 billion. :)
 

kams

New Member
RFP issued

:D
India today issued Request for Proposals for purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft.

Eighteen aircraft are to be bought in flyaway condition, and 108 to be made in India under license production.

The government imposed 50 per cent direct offset in purchase of fighters.
RFP Issued
 

f-22fan12

New Member
I have full confidence that the F-18 E/F Super Hornet will win. It has AESA radar technology that none of the other competitors have. And the F-18 is the most advanced plane in that compitition.
 

merocaine

New Member
I have full confidence that the F-18 E/F Super Hornet will win. It has AESA radar technology that none of the other competitors have. And the F-18 is the most advanced plane in that compitition.
Maybe but those things are seldom decided on technicial merit alone.
 

kams

New Member
So would EADS!
How are the negotiations with the Russians going? Are you guys still looking at the MIG29...?
AFAIK, Mig-35 is still in the competition. There was an issue with Russia not signing the integrity pact, which is mandatory to participate in any Indian defence tender. Don't know whether this has been resolved.
 

Sansei442/100

New Member
AFAIK, Mig-35 is still in the competition. There was an issue with Russia not signing the integrity pact, which is mandatory to participate in any Indian defence tender. Don't know whether this has been resolved.
hmmm....The Russians seem to have a problem with the quality of their products. Maybe the integrity clause was to insulate themselves from any Indian complaints. Trust the Russians to do this sort of thing.

This MRCA deal however is more than the combat aircraft alone-it is intensely geopolitical and the contest is about who can offer India the most political favours and benefits as well as the best mix of EW equipment and ToT. If you look at it from this way it only leaves four real competitors: the EF-2000, the F-16C/D/E/F and F-18E/F and the Mig-35. However, the EF-2000 is a four partner project and therefore at risk of a much greater risk of failing to meet deadlines for delivery-add to the fact that it doesn't even have the CAESAR AESA radar or the Meteor BVR fully integrated yet and you have an incomplete package at Tranche 1/2 status with a high cost. It also doesn't help that the Typhoon is primarily an Air-Air fighter with secondary air-ground capability and the MRCA requirement specifically lists enhanced strike capability as a must-the SU-30MKI already fulfills the Heavy Combat Aircraft role admirably.

The Mig-35 is the next candidate that many on Indian Defence forums assert to be the winner of the contract. However it must be noted that if India selects the Mig-35 then Russia will have a enormous amount of leverage over Indian military procurement which the Indians may not be happy about. The Mig-35 features a prototype AESA from Timakhliv of questionable effectiveness as well as other goodies such as Thrust Vectoring etc. etc. This may look really nice at air shows like AeroIndia 2007 (I was there=) but unfortunately in real combat is of questionable effectiveness due to the proliferation of superb AAMS such as the AMRAAM, Derby, Python 5, MICA which have terminal targeting modes, all aspect wavelength detection and off boresight launches which at 13Gs more than outmanuever a sustained aircraft evasive turn at 9Gs. Added to the fact the Russians are demanding more cash for the Su-30MKI deal for 40 aircraft (claiming a devaluation of the $US) this has made India very unhappy and looking to diversify the sources of aircraft being inducted in the IAF.

The US entries are the most interesting given the 2005 signing of the Strategic Defense Co-operation pact with India resulting in the transfer of the USS Trenton to India in 06'-a historic first for the two great democracies. The US has offered the F-16-probably the F-16E/F Block 70 (probably an even more advanced variant of the UAE B60) or the F-16I from Israel given Indian friendship with Israel. Both variants are dedicated strike fighters but the only problem is that Pakistan operates them too-very bad news.

Enter the F-18E/F, the US Navy's newest strike fighter with the full transfer of goodies including the APG79/80 AESA radar that has been combat tested, enhanced EW wafare suite with options for the order of EF-18E/F (most useful for taking out Pakistani SAMs) as well as full ToT and support with the promise of a maintenace hub at Bangalore. The F-18E/F is not cheap but it is a superb strike fighter able to fight its way to the target and get back to base (according to Boeing anyway) but the real benefits will be to increase the siginificant gap over the near obsolete Pakistani Airforce and give India a taste of operating a modern all aspect strike fighter-superior to the (18!)current F-16 Block 52+ the PAF are getting as well as consolidating US technology transfers to the Indian Defense industry.:)
 

Marsh

New Member
RAC MiG Director General of Engineering Control, Vladimir Barkovsky, claimed that the company was confident and that they would not enter the aircraft into the competition were they not 100 per-cent sure it could win :)
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
hmmm....The Russians seem to have a problem with the quality of their products. Maybe the integrity clause was to insulate themselves from any Indian complaints. ............ the PAF are getting as well as consolidating US technology transfers to the Indian Defense industry.:)
A well thought out and interesting post. If the US product does get up it will certainly 'break the mold' of past purchases, however, it is also consistent with the fact India have alwasy been quite flexible in their aquistion processes in so far as source is concerned.
 

yess

New Member
the $10 billion MRCA deal, does it also include spare parts and Armament? or just the plane it self?
 

kams

New Member
the $10 billion MRCA deal, does it also include spare parts and Armament? or just the plane it self?
None of the official press releases have put a dollar value to the contract. The US $10 billion figure appears in other reports. However MOD has made it clear that contract will include full life time support and spares. It's likely that final contract will be much more than US$10 billion, if you factor in life cycle , infrastructure, finance, spare and support costs. Cost of planes themself may not be more than 60% of the total prohram cost.

It's unlikely this particular contract will include Armaments. A separate contract will have to be signed, as large number of options available from different suppliers.
 
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