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- #41
I never said it was a U.S. mission, I pointed out that there is bulk of U.S. troops involved with this Kosovo peace process.
Kosovo Conflict
- Thread starter Sgt.Banes
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Grand Danois
Entertainer
Reading your posts certainly leave me (and others?) with the impression that there are significant amounts of US soldiers tied down in this mission, and that significant numbers of Europeans would be needed to replace those.
As this is not so, I had to put some perspective on it.
I still don't see how you are going to use the US troops which relocate from the Kosovo in the south of A-stan.
You have to show me how you are able to substitute nearly 3500 german soldiers in the north of A-stan with 2000 US troops which are coming from Kosovo AND use some of the 2000 US troops for fighting in the south.
Not to talk of the other smaller countries working in the north like Sweden, Norway, etc.
That would be a real miracle.
You have to show me how you are able to substitute nearly 3500 german soldiers in the north of A-stan with 2000 US troops which are coming from Kosovo AND use some of the 2000 US troops for fighting in the south.
Not to talk of the other smaller countries working in the north like Sweden, Norway, etc.
That would be a real miracle.
When I see statements like 'stomping out the Taleban' I must smile. Why do you think you can do in a year what never happened with the Russians who poured thousands of soldiers more in the country?
You do not 'stomp out' the Taleban, you try to win over the population and build up the country while creating a secure situation by fighting the Taleban, that is a real difference. A surge did not help the Russians, as surge does not help in Iraq and it sure will not help in Afghanistan
You do not 'stomp out' the Taleban, you try to win over the population and build up the country while creating a secure situation by fighting the Taleban, that is a real difference. A surge did not help the Russians, as surge does not help in Iraq and it sure will not help in Afghanistan
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- #45
I've stated that the Germans, Dutch, Italians, and French troops stationed under ISAF and the Operation in Afghanistan, can be rotated out of there and re-deployed in Kosovo. I've even stated that Germany can take over the role as the primary operations and mission handler. And the U.S was the main Nation that supported and took part in the mission. Not to mention we have had the most casualties since the mission began in the 90's.
And this is indeed so.
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- #46
A 2000-3500 swap is a drop in the bucket, the Germans and other smaller European Nations will prove to be easier to rotated out than speculated.
And I would think Sweden and Norway would rather be stationed in Kosovo rather than southern Afghanistan.
This is not an answer to my question.
What benefits do you get?
If the european countries operating in the north of A-stan would pull out you would need more (much more) than the 2000 soldiers you get out of Kosovo to just fill the holes.
You just cannot substitute nearly 4000 european troops in the north with 2000 US troops coming from the Kosovo. Not to talk of sending them into the south.
BTW, you know who is already the leading nation in Kosovo, do you? General Roland Kather is now the commander of KFOR (Third german KFOR leader with the US having one ---> General Wesley Clark the first KFOR commander) and our troops commitment there exceeds the US one with 3250 soldiers (Raising up to 3800 soldiers during riots).
And you should be aware of the fact that the troops in Kosovo dropped from 50.000 soldiers to 19.000 soldiers during the last years. It is not as if there is nothing going on.
What benefits do you get?
If the european countries operating in the north of A-stan would pull out you would need more (much more) than the 2000 soldiers you get out of Kosovo to just fill the holes.
You just cannot substitute nearly 4000 european troops in the north with 2000 US troops coming from the Kosovo. Not to talk of sending them into the south.
BTW, you know who is already the leading nation in Kosovo, do you? General Roland Kather is now the commander of KFOR (Third german KFOR leader with the US having one ---> General Wesley Clark the first KFOR commander) and our troops commitment there exceeds the US one with 3250 soldiers (Raising up to 3800 soldiers during riots).
And you should be aware of the fact that the troops in Kosovo dropped from 50.000 soldiers to 19.000 soldiers during the last years. It is not as if there is nothing going on.
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- #48
Well do you want me to simulate a withdrawl, I mean there's nothing that I can show online. But in essence the benefits would include better U.S. presence and control of the southern regions of Afghanistan. And will allow us to have a more freedom to go after the Taliban and other foreign fighters in the Northern Region. With a rotation of European control in the southern region, European NATO forces don't have as much to worry about if their tucked away in Kosovo.
But back to the question you posed to me earilier, would be fairly simple in regards to leaving all European outposts and bases in the hands of the U.S. as the European NATO forces leave. And basically pick up where Germany and so on left off.
Jup I am referring to those riots.
Such possible riots and other crisises are the reason for us having a QRF ready for Kosovo all the time.
You had any freedom you wanted before we took responsibility for the north. Remember we took over the US positions with our own PRTs. And you still have any freedom you want under EUF mandate.
But you just deny simple math.
There are round about 4000 europeans in the north.
On the other hand you have 1500-2000 US troops in Kosovo.
Now tell me how it gives you additional free troops in the north and south of A-stan if you exchange both troop contingents.
1500-2000 US troops are going to be able to do the work of 4000 european troops in the north and give you additional strength in the south? This is just not possible even if you take into account that you need less staff and support units due to you having a homogeneous force and not a multi-national force.
Such possible riots and other crisises are the reason for us having a QRF ready for Kosovo all the time.
You had any freedom you wanted before we took responsibility for the north. Remember we took over the US positions with our own PRTs. And you still have any freedom you want under EUF mandate.
But you just deny simple math.
There are round about 4000 europeans in the north.
On the other hand you have 1500-2000 US troops in Kosovo.
Now tell me how it gives you additional free troops in the north and south of A-stan if you exchange both troop contingents.
1500-2000 US troops are going to be able to do the work of 4000 european troops in the north and give you additional strength in the south? This is just not possible even if you take into account that you need less staff and support units due to you having a homogeneous force and not a multi-national force.
Well stated!
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- #52
The U.S. wouldn't be alone in the region, I mean you make seem as if I'm just making the NATO operation into a U.S. operation. I just want U.S. troops already stationed in Kosovo and the southeastern region of Europe to be redeployed in Afghanistan to join the U.S., British, and Australian forces already there.
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- #53
Well I haven't stated any time restraints for this operation, you must also understand that we are the United States we have the resources and we are supporting a fairly well established and well loved government (Unlike the Soviet back communist regime). I don't expect NATO or the United States to beat the Taliban in one year I don't even know where you assumed that I meant that. But the fact that the Taliban is the main threat to causing any type of political unrest in the country itself, is only proof that with added pressure will fully destroy this organization for all time.
Yeah and you said the whole in Kosovo could be filled by the europeans currently operating in the norht of A-stan.
And there is the problem.
There are far more german troops in A-stan (Not to talk of the others operating in the north) than are US troops in the Kosovo. So an exchange if both would not result in more free troops for the south but in the need for additional US troops for the north on top of the ones coming from Kosovo.
And there is the problem.
There are far more german troops in A-stan (Not to talk of the others operating in the north) than are US troops in the Kosovo. So an exchange if both would not result in more free troops for the south but in the need for additional US troops for the north on top of the ones coming from Kosovo.
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- #55
How many more I mean from what see there are only the 4000+ troops there. There can't be that much as far as the Bundeswehr is concerned.
Again. 
There are ca. 1500-2000 US troops in the Kosovo.
According to your plan these troops are relocated to A-stan.
There we have 3500 germans in the north and a bunch of smaller detachements from other nations.
Those should leave A-stan and go to Kosovo.
So you have a hole of ca. 4000 troops in the north of A-stan.
You get max. 2000 US troops out of Kosovo to fill this hole.
You would need less troops than we do due to multinational forces tend to be tail heavier but this won't be enough.
So by performing your plan you get not even enough troops for the hole in the north not to talk of freeing up additonal troops for the south. And you kill the multinational idea of ISAF.
There are ca. 1500-2000 US troops in the Kosovo.
According to your plan these troops are relocated to A-stan.
There we have 3500 germans in the north and a bunch of smaller detachements from other nations.
Those should leave A-stan and go to Kosovo.
So you have a hole of ca. 4000 troops in the north of A-stan.
You get max. 2000 US troops out of Kosovo to fill this hole.
You would need less troops than we do due to multinational forces tend to be tail heavier but this won't be enough.
So by performing your plan you get not even enough troops for the hole in the north not to talk of freeing up additonal troops for the south. And you kill the multinational idea of ISAF.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Which is the primary idea behind both forces.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Thank you. Sadly we lost the important game against Spain last saturday. We totally dominated the game until the ref sent one of our defenders off. In the 15-20 min (!) of confusion afterwards they succeeded in scoring 2 goals. Then we got into the game again reducing their lead. But they won.Jup, you are right.
BTW, congratulations for the game.
What a lame game of both teams.
And Spain was in trouble against Iceland this evening. And that on their home turf!
Blah! We'll qualify.
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