Kosovo Conflict

[Grand Danois]

Like you qualified for the World Cup?

(Shame on me for this joke... :loony )

IIRC, the Danish side has qualified for 8 or 9 out of the 10 last EC's/WC's.

That is an excellent record.

Remember '92 perchance? :

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Again.

There are ca. 1500-2000 US troops in the Kosovo.
According to your plan these troops are relocated to A-stan.

There we have 3500 germans in the north and a bunch of smaller detachements from other nations.
Those should leave A-stan and go to Kosovo.

So you have a hole of ca. 4000 troops in the north of A-stan.
You get max. 2000 US troops out of Kosovo to fill this hole.

You would need less troops than we do due to multinational forces tend to be tail heavier but this won't be enough.

So by performing your plan you get not even enough troops for the hole in the north not to talk of freeing up additonal troops for the south. And you kill the multinational idea of ISAF.

I wouldn't quite kill it, you still have the Australians, British, and Canadian Forces in A-stan. Not to mention that we would then send 2000+ troops to join that 2000 surplus redeployed there.

 

[Waylander]

And what is the point in this? You would still need more troops to fill the holes and seriously degenerate the multinational idea.
For what?

 

[Sgt.Banes]

And what is the point in this? You would still need more troops to fill the holes and seriously degenerate the multinational idea.
For what?

It wouldn't degenerate it because you still have more than one NATO country engaged in a conflict, therefore its still a multinational coalition. And yes the U.S. would need more troops to fill in the spaces but of course 2000+ troops is still fairly easy for us to handle.

 

[Waylander]

But I ask again what would you gain?

You need more troops than now and you weaken the multinational character of the ISAF and KFOR missions.
BTW, the americans are not that well liked also in the north of A-stan.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

But I ask again what would you gain?

You need more troops than now and you weaken the multinational character of the ISAF and KFOR missions.
BTW, the americans are not that well liked also in the north of A-stan.

We would gain more control of the mission, and the fact of Americans not being liked in the region can easily change. We simply need to employ a program of winning "Hearts and Minds".

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Kosovo conlict (maybe again???)

Ah I found it.
I am from Kosovo, I am Serbian, I live in the southiest Serbian enclave-Strpce (Brezovica-ski center) and maybe only thing way I have registered on this forum is searching for professional answer on my question. I hope I will get it. For those who think that they know everything about Kosovo and for those who don't : For many Serbs situation in Kosovo, from KFOR troops arrival is miserable and desperate. With catastrophic economical situation, lowest life standard in Europe (without electricity power for 6 hours daily- few days, in some enclaves even without water, without heating in cold winters, without jobs and etc...) and to not forget to mention "freedom" of movement for Serbian people ( you can walk, but if you get killed that is not our(KFOR) blame ) and with all that getting even worse in days when independence should be declared, Kosovo is not really
successful NATO and UN project. That is fact. So when Albanians declare independence with support of America and many other countries, and with Serbian only diplomatic defence (economic blockade, and with many different types of political and economical actions) which will hit Albanians and Serbians
as well, what will possible be Albanian answer,( beside diplomatic) maybe another violence like back in March 2004, maybe just few protest marsh,
maybe really serious turmoil, war or nothing. What is sure is that a lot of Serbian people (who had enough) will leave Kosovo after declaring independence, but mostly of us will stay. But after that, with a various scenarios avaleable will KFOR be able to protect Serbs, then, and what KFOR will do for Serbian safety in longer period??? :shudder :shudder

 

[merocaine]

What is sure is that a lot of Serbian people (who had enough) will leave Kosovo after declaring independence, but mostly of us will stay. But after that, with a various scenarios avaleable will KFOR be able to protect Serbs, then, and what KFOR will do for Serbian safety in longer period???

Your in a difficult situation Pal, the Serbs don't have much of a future in Kosovo.
Heres a suggestion though, sit tight and declare independence from Kosovo, at least that way you will get to keep your homes.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Your in a difficult situation Pal, the Serbs don't have much of a future in Kosovo.
Heres a suggestion though, sit tight and declare independence from Kosovo, at least that way you will get to keep your homes.

Very interesting, I will keep that in mind. Any suggestion how that state should be called?
By the way, the European mission that will be soon illegally sent to Kosovo, does
consist of heavy armed forces or light police forces and observers, or just observers?

 

[Generalissimo]

Kosovo=Serbia, I am an American, and I want to help heal some of the dislike between our countries here by saying that although I support Kosovo's independence and really disapprove of the US Embassy incident, I sympathize with the fact that you had part of your country taken and never got a say in it. Do you actually live in Kosovo or in Serbia proper? IIRC Mistiricova is in Kosovo.

Really the best thing that the Kosovar Serbs could do for themselves is declare Northern Kosovo independent in a nonviolent manner and then announce reunion with Serbia. Then you have peaceful separation of Serbs and Albanians.

 

[mysterious]

Very interesting analysis done by BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260283.stm

If the Serb majority in Northern Kosovo are going to continue to provoke & attack UN forces & other places they need to be restrained. Radical Serbian nationalism has only bore bad news for the Balkans since the post-War years.

The Int'l Community should've let parts of Northern Kosovo that have Serbs as majority join Serbia proper in exchange for making Presevo valley in Serbia proper to join Kosovo where the majority are ethnic Albanians.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Kosovo=Serbia, I am an American, and I want to help heal some of the dislike between our countries here by saying that although I support Kosovo's independence and really disapprove of the US Embassy incident, I sympathize with the fact that you had part of your country taken and never got a say in it. Do you actually live in Kosovo or in Serbia proper? IIRC Mistiricova is in Kosovo.

Really the best thing that the Kosovar Serbs could do for themselves is declare Northern Kosovo independent in a nonviolent manner and then announce reunion with Serbia. Then you have peaceful separation of Serbs and Albanians.

Hi Generalissimo, I live in Kosovo on the mountain on the Macedonian border.
No offense, but you simply sound like criminal to me. You support breaking of international low, of UN low. UN was established after WW2 with only reason- to prevent it happen again. Basic, substance of it is ( or should I say was ) law, law with its basic article which says that you simply can't change
any country borders if that country not accept it. And there is even concrete
article about Kosovo- resolution 1244 , which explicit says that Kosovo is part of Serbia, and that cant be change, never, unless Serbia agree. Although 1244 is still active, temporary government of Kosovo ( Albanians ) declare uniteraly independence, and to all be worse, some western country recognize it.

Well, I can say that USA exceed all bounds this time, as main supporter of
Kosovo ind. Playing world Sheriff become demonstrated criminal.

Demonstrated in the way that their behave on this one particulary will echo in
whole world ( maybe that was your goal ).

There is already words of incoming disorders, from dozens of separatist movements across world.

It will be really nice to see all nations and all people as friends of course and Serbia and America as well, but it will be a little bit hard after your acts and
behaves, not only now, but also in the past, NATO aggression back in 1999, and them targeting and shooting civilians, children hospitals, markets, civilian
trains, houses and bridges, become and remain as main picture of American
and NATO for all Serbs.

And you are feeling bad, because building was fire damaged......


About declaring North Kosovo ind. from rest of it, it is also illegally and will cause even more trouble, and Serbs don't live only in north Kosovo, but
on the west, east, south of it. What about them, if North do something, who
will protect rest of people in Kosovo from Albanians vengeance. KFOR ?
I really don't believe in that, for me they showed their incompetence back
in march 2004, and during all this time. No Serbs trust them. Of course, there
are also good and brave solders among them, Serbs like and trust most of the Polish, Greece, Ukrainian and German troops. But main force on Kosovo are American KFOR, and no Serbs trust or like them, so knowing, that any serious action of the North Kosovo will probably have for consequent Albanian violence, which will hard strike Serbs who lives in other isolated ghettos, and
knowing/guessing that KFOR will do nothing to prevent it and protect peoples, ( for now ) no one in government consider that as solution.
Of course, as I mention that it is illegally act too, Serbia will probably not support it, because unlike someone we obey the law.

So it is not good solution. Well, at least not for me. Because as I said, I live
in south of Kosovo, on the border with Macedonia, we are most isolated enclav and far away from rest of Serbia.

And yes I live in Kosovo, in the Serbia, just like some American live in Texas, in the USA, or some Australian live in the Queensland, in Australia.........

 

[gvg]

Could you perhaps help me understand something.

Aside from the legallity of the whole situation, why does Serbia want Kosovo so bad? Why would you want something that doesn't want to belong to you and is sure to cause trouble in the future, what's the benefit of that?

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Very interesting analysis done by BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260283.stm

If the Serb majority in Northern Kosovo are going to continue to provoke & attack UN forces & other places they need to be restrained. Radical Serbian nationalism has only bore bad news for the Balkans since the post-War years.

The Int'l Community should've let parts of Northern Kosovo that have Serbs as majority join Serbia proper in exchange for making Presevo valley in Serbia proper to join Kosovo where the majority are ethnic Albanians.

Dear mysterious, you should know that BBC is nothing more than propaganda machine. They are not lie of course, but their true is kind of dimmed, their reports are everything else than objectively.
For ex. during kristallnacht on march 2004, when hundreds of Serbs houses, dozens of old churches and monasteries were burned and many Serbs killed,
I was hiding with my family together in my aunt house in the Serb town Strpce, and most of the time watching BBC, CNN, SKY news, Euronews and etc... With only reason, we were glad that world will finally see the true about
Albanians, and we want to see world reaction and people statements on that
mediums. But on first night, their reports saying that there was a fight
between Serb rebels and Albanian people and few Serbian rebels got killed, and btw few houses and maybe one church were burned. Second night, they said how there is no more fight, KFOR take it under control, but outraged Albanians burn few more houses and few more churches.... phhhhhhhh.....
Well, btw if you can remember their reports during war 98, and 99, you see how powerful it can be. Because "Racak incident" Serbia was bombed. They said to the world how Serbian militia cut throttle of Albanian civilian, and
BBC seductive report make it main reason for NATO aggression. But if you follow Racak incident investigation, which was putted in the shadow of war and constantly spiting at Serbs, and for which there was no place in BBC reports, you could see that, first, they were no civilians, they were KLA terrorists, killed in the last night battle from Serb police, and trailed by their "comrades" to the scene. Lab results found gunpowder on their hand, found no blood at the scene and found drag marks and blood from forest to the scene, and second no one had chop nek. Not only Racak, but almost every move of Serbs army and police were demonstrated as war crime and ethnic cleansing, I can bet that BBC never tell about dead Serbs civilians, never mention about Albanians ethnic cleansing, like they talking about us. And if you try to say to someone on the west anything else, but what was serve them on BBC, they wouldnt believe you. That much is strong BBC, I believe
they could make a science ( or they already have ) during all this years for their "true introduction".
And yes Serbian nationalism has only bore bad news for the Balkans since the post-War years, did any nationalism give good news about anyone???
But you are forgetting about Croatian nationalism (or should I say fascism)
forgetting Bosnian muslims and Mujahedeens " holly warriors" forgetting KLA terrorist, just like BBC telling only part of story, giving me dimmed true.
And about secession of North Kosovo, that is bad and illegally act too.
Can't provide peace.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Could you perhaps help me understand something.

Aside from the legallity of the whole situation, why does Serbia want Kosovo so bad? Why would you want something that doesn't want to belong to you and is sure to cause trouble in the future, what's the benefit of that?

First we don't look for benefit, we look for justice.
Second, little history , Serbs came to Balkan in the first half of the 7th century,
or earlier. At the time, we populated Kosovo. Ottoman Turks rush it, and soon after, after 1 Kosovo battle 1389 conquer whole Serbia. Albanian fought on Ottoman side in the battle and after maraud Serbs on Kosovo during all these years while Kosovo was under Ottoman control. In ww2 Nazis give them to rule
Kosovo, and they did pretty bad things. Now, after years of suffer, ethnic cleansing, and exiling, there left about 130000 Serbs, who are again under pressure and in danger and living in constantly fear, don't mention catastrophic economic situation.
So because of them, of their justice, and because of justice of those who died since 1 Kosovo battle, up to now, we want it back. Everysingleone of us.

 

[Stryker001]

!

If the Russians are indeed right that this annexation is a breach of international law and Kosovo is still part of Serbia. If Serbia asks for Russian assistance (Peacekeeping) in Serbian territories Russian troops can legally enter Kosovo under international law and take control of security (Peacekeeping).

The EU would have to leave otherwise if they engage Russian forces, one the EU have declared war on Russia and secondly they have no legal basis for such aggression.

If Russia wants Kosovo as part of Serbia and the Russian/Serbian alliance they will take it, simple as that.

Kosovo will become a safe haven and staging point for extremism in greater Serbia and possibly cause problems in Chechnya. Once the promises of greater economic benefits and the illusion of democracy fails.

 

[Yasin20]

i always wonder would a majore war happen becouse of a new state in the balkans

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

If the Russians are indeed right that this annexation is a breach of international law and Kosovo is still part of Serbia. If Serbia asks for Russian assistance (Peacekeeping) in Serbian territories Russian troops can legally enter Kosovo under international law and take control of security (Peacekeeping).

The EU would have to leave otherwise if they engage Russian forces, one the EU have declared war on Russia and secondly they have no legal basis for such aggression.

If Russia wants Kosovo as part of Serbia and the Russian/Serbian alliance they will take it, simple as that.

Yeah it sound simple, but of course is little more complicated, first I am not sure that will be allowed by UN, because Kosovo is Serbian province under UN
administration, and that is what Serbia accept. So that must go through UN, I am not 100% sure, but I think so... Serbia can only invite Russian troops in other parts of land to contribute stability, some my friends, solders, talking about possibility of russian missile shield in Serbia, even some politicians talk about it and about russian army base in Serbia, but no one take it serious
because in this government are most of yes-mans of the West. Not all, but enough to make this scenario impossible. And second, there is no need for missile shield, because it is not logical for Russian to put up their rockets closer to enemy and jeopardize it, when it can be effective from distance. Right? I am not army expert, far from that, and this (second) is my personal opinion....
I personaly would like to see soon, some T-95s and Black Eagles below Mig-35, and Su-37 but I think its not possible for now........

Kosovo will become a safe haven and staging point for extremism in greater Serbia and possibly cause problems in Chechnya. Once the promises of greater economic benefits and the illusion of democracy fails.

What economic benefit? Kosovo does not have enough electricity power,
water, don't to talking about jobs. Serb enclaves some times don't have power for 3 days, max power in cold winter days is total 6h for day. Education
is 0, better say -10. And most of all security for Serbs, and non Albanians is
minimal , especially in the next days...... I was writing little about it in some of my posts I think... So to there is no illusion of democracy for Serbs, we know
all very good what follow... and Albanian know it as well.......
So there will be problems........
In chechnya, Baskija, Abkhasia, South Ossetia.....
Like some western politician said, not sure who, when he answered on the question of some reporter, who ask him, is there any chances that mass protest in Serbia, Kosovo and all around world against Kosovo independence could affect to change it. He said: No way, the train have left the station......
And I can say that all this separatist waiting all along railway to catch the train.........................................

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

i always wonder would a majore war happen becouse of a new state in the balkans

I cant give you professional answer, I think I read somewhere on the web about professional military analysis about it, but I really forget were, it was written before, before Kosovo declares independence, I think 2006 or 07,
They were right about Kosovo independence, they said it will be declared in the
early 2008, and also that there would be mini skirmishes and conflicts during whole year, and that there is great possibility for major conflict in summer 2008, or spring 2009........... If I found it I will post.
But it is really complicated, and no one can make serious analysis, we only
speculate....................
and my opinion is that people here get tired of wars, and it is one of several reason why Serbia tells that will use only diplomatic and economic tools in the Kosovo battle. But on the other hand, if Albanian start to act how we all expect them to act and if KFOR again fail to protect Serbs, country must react......... Should react........ That is were my/everyone answer on your question is breaking......................
And if shhiit happen, then war is just waiting to wake up again on these lands,
all over Balkan, people, Bosnian, Croats, Serbs, Albanians.......... are still angry on each other, and could grow up to a major war ( last one here).........
That is my opinion, not answer on your question, just opinion.......

 

[Yasin20]

would russia be involved this time maybe possibly against the nato forces as well