It seems Brazilians either like risks or trust in Type 214 (translated by google, not of much quality but one can easily get the point what they say):
http://www.defesanet.com.br/zz/mb_u214.htmNAVY OF BRAZIL chooses Submarine U214 Classroom without AIP
Defense @ Net publishes the position of the Navy of referring Brazil to the decision of acquisition of the future classroom of submarines. The chosen model and the reasons of the choice. Also the definition on an controversial point that is the adoption or not of a propulsion system auxiliary (AIP).
A small comparative table on the main differences between the submarines Tupi Classroom (Classroom 209 - IKL 1400) and the futures is presented U214 Classroom.
In attention its message, the Navy of Brazil clarifies:
1) Already the submarine model is defined: Scorpène (France), U212 or U214 (Germany)?
Reply: The selective process adopted by the Navy of Brazil (MB), for the choice of a new submarine: to be acquired by means of construction in the country, it resulted in the election of Project IKL U 214, of the HDW (to see note 1).
In view of the convenlência to prevent the duplicity of logistic costs to support submarines of different origins - what it would occur. fatally. if project of another manufacturer was chosen - and considering the vultosos investments carried through for the Navy " throughout the two last decades, in different conotadas goals to the submarines Tupi Classroom and, more recently, in the construction of the Tikuna, associates to the culture and the technology assimilated in this period for ours technician (engineers and laborers) and crews (official and squares) in relation to the constructive, logisticos processes, of maintenance and operation of these ways, respectively, the MB understood that it would have to keep the standardization of models IKL - HDW, of origin German.
(to see note 2)
2) the chosen model will be equipped with Advanced system of propulsion, as the AlP, in the case of the submarines German?
Reply: The Navy decided for proieto of IKL 214 without AIP. The reasons that had led to such decision are of essentially logistic order. The spite of some undeniable operational advantages presented by the system, that allows to the submerged navigation low the speed, for about ten days, without necessity of atmospheric air, the MB very considsiderou high custos' of attainment, operation and maintenance of this system. taking the one that the reason cost/benefit was not justified.
But to illustrate, the system demand, to each recharge, fifteen tons of liquid oxygen and about two tons hydrogen to 99.9999% of pureness, in the gaseous state, represents. for this gas, volume equivalent the eight truck-tank. Beyond the natural difficulty in the attainment. it would have problems for the transport until the submarine, rank that the hydrogen is considered dangerous load. Also; to transfer the gases of I propagate it of supply for edge; one is necessary
Infrastructure for the recharge of the blisters of storage of submarinoj what it would make impracticable the restocking is of Rio De Janeiro, in the hypothesis to have availability of these gases in other ports. Finally, a sailed nautical mile with AIP costs the equivalent US$ 43 (forty and three dollar); with diesel, US$ 6 (six dollar).
Notes Prohibited @ Net
Note 1 - The company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems was formed with the fusing of the activities of the following shipyards:
Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) Kiel, Blohm + Voss - Hamburg, Nordseewerke - Emden, and the Kockums, Sweden and the Hellenic Shipyards, Greece. As 75% of the actions belong to the German group ThyssenKrupp has activities of management had been assumed by the group, the others 25% belong to the group One Equity Partners (OEP).
Term IKL is the initials of the office of engineering “Ingenieur Kontor Lübeck”, that it projected the classroom of U209 submarine. Term IKL1400 to characterize inside better of more than 63 submarines produced inside of classroom 209 was adopted as standard since years 60 until the moment (2006).
Note 2 -. The attainment of new submarines was enclosed initially in the Program of Reaparelhamento of Marinha (PRM) Revision 1979. From now on the studies for the determination of the type of submarine had been initiated to be acquired, that they had resulted, after evaluation of the existing alternatives, in the election of submarine IKL-209-1400 of German origin, projected for the firm Ingenieur Kontor Lubeck (IKL), as being that one that better took care of in such a way to the desired profile of operation as the planned technological evolution.
In 1982 the Navy signed two contracts technician with Consórcio Ferrostaal/Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft (HDW) of Germany that foresaw the construction of two identical submarines, the first one in shipyard HDW in Kiel and as in the Armory of Navy of Rio De Janeiro (AMRJ). In 1984, after the conclusion of the referring negotiations to the financial part of contracts, these had become effective, initiating itself thus, in this exactly year the construction of the Tupi submarine (S30) in Germany. Later, in 1985, one third contract for the attainment of more two submarines was signed, that equally would be constructed in the Armory of Navy of Rio De Janeiro, then indicated by the Navy, as the construction shipyard in Brazil. Also the Tikuna (S34) in AM
http://www.projetobr.com.br/Content.aspx?Id=923Management and Quality - 1/12/2006 10:09
Navy of Brazil confirms option for submarine manufactured in Germany
Representative of the Center of Communication denies insatisfação of Greeks and details the lead nuclear program in Brazil
The quarrel on nuclear submarine IKL-214 started in blog of the journalist Nassif Luis and arrived until the Brazilian Navy. According to the press of Greece, country that acquired four units, the equipment presented primary defects in the tests carried through after the delivery of the first unit. The news article of the Brazil Project entered in contact with the Center of Social Communication of the Navy, that answered in less 24-hour.
It enters the main points of the interview for email with Captain-of-Sea-and-War and Diretor of the CCSM, Pablo Mauricio Farias Alves, prominence for the confirmation of that Brazil intends to acquire the submarine in question. The representative of the Center of communication denied that the Greeks are unsatisfied with the equipment and affirmed that Brazilian military had followed the first tests in Greece.
The director of the CCSM confirms that proposals of French shipyards had been studied, but the Brazilian Navy opted to the manufactured one in Germany, to prevent the duplicity of logistic costs. In the last reply, the representative details the nuclear program lead by the Navy of Brazil, with costs and perspectives. He confers the interview and he comments:
Brazil project: Exists some definition on the purchase of submarines on the part of the Brazilian Navy?
Center of Social Communication of the Navy: In 1982, the MB contracted German trust HDW-FERROSTAAL, for the construction of four submarines of conventional propulsion (diesel-electric). The first one was constructed in Germany, in shipyard HDW (model IKL-209-1400), baptized of Tupi, and the others three, of the same classroom, called Tamoio, Timbira and Tapajó, had been constructed in the AMRJ. Later, in 1995, new contract was signed, adding plus a submarine, the Tikuna. Having finished the construction it Tikuna, imposed it construction of new submarine, duly warned, on the other hand, if to lose a qualification so hardly reached e, for another one, to be without perspective of renewal of the ways.
Considering the convenience to prevent the duplicity of logistic costs, to support submarines of different origins, - what it would occur fatally, if project of another manufacturer was chosen, and considering the vultosos investments carried through for the Navy, throughout the two last decades, in different conotadas goals to the submarines Tupi Classroom and, more recently, in the construction of the Tikuna, associates to the culture and to the technology assimilated in this period for ours technician (engineers and laborers) and crews (official and squares), in relation to the constructive, logistic processes, of maintenance and operation of these ways, respectively, the MB understood that it would have to keep the standardization of models IKL-HDW, German origin.
PB: Which model is in study?
CCSM: Before if deciding for the project of the IKL-214, the HDW, the MB it also studied the project of the Scorpène submarine, of company ARMARIS, France. In the truth, throughout all the process, the MB was negotiating with two alternatives, having, to the end, concluded that the proposal of the HDW was the one that most took care of to its necessities.
PB: Exists some financing approved for this acquisition?
CCSM: In the target of the Program of Reaparelhamento presented for the Navy, specifically how much to the construction and modernization of submarines, it has a proposal, in the Commission of External Financings - COFIEX of the Ministry of the Planning, Budget and Management, of operation of credit with German institutions for the construction of a conventional submarine and the modernization of the five existing ones, of classroom TUPI and TIKUNA, to be done (construction and modernization) in the Armory of Navy in Rio De Janeiro. The financing is offered by ABN AMRO Bank, covered for the safe from credit of the German government “HERMES”.
The construction proposal foresees that the delivery of the submarine will have to be concluded in up to seven years after the signature of the commercial contract. How much to the modernizations, for the first submarine it would have a duration of four years and for the four excessively it would occur, sequentially, in two years, for each one.
PB: The U-214 model, manufactured in Germany, presented serious problems and therefore, according to the local press, was denied by the Navy of Greece. The Navy of Brazil has knowledge on some of these defects?
CCSM: Greece contracted, next to the HDW, the construction of four submarines IKL-214, having been first one, the HN Papanikolis, constructed in the shipyards of the HDW, in Kiel, Germany, while the others three will have to be constructed in the shipyard of Skaramanga, in Greece. Regarding to the alluded problems technician, the official information received by the Navy of Brazil (MB), as much of the HDW how much of the Navy of Greece, they disclose a sufficiently different picture of that one propagated in some Greek and Turkish periodicals or in the Internet.
The Navy of Greece informs that she is satisfied with the submarine and that problems technician appeared during the tests of sea had been cured content it. The HDW, in official document, related the appeared problems and the adopted solutions. It stands out to notice that the reason of being of the tests of sea the one that are submitted the ships is exactly to identify eventual defects of construction, being usual the sprouting of discrepancies, that the construction shipyard is obliged to repair. Contractual disposals establish indemnities for defects that if do not obtain to correct, since that, for its sum, they do not compromise the security or the operationalization of the way in question.
In November of 2005, when the Papanikolis submarine met come alongside in the port of Kristiansand, during its tests of sea, a representation of the MB, composed of submarinistas and engineer-naval officers, it visited the ship and it had the spoon chance the impressions of the Greek officer assigned to command it. It was all compliments to the quality and the performance of the submarine. Difficult to understand as, shortly afterwards, it could have start to present so primary and elementary problems, as vibration of periscope in the insignificant speed of three we (5,5 km/h), among others.
Answering objective to the question, the MB, throughout all the process, adopted - and it continues adopting - all the cabíveis steps, to inquire itself well about the facts, also, keeping contact with the Navy of Greece, beyond, evidently, with the construction shipyard. What it happens is that, in the case, the real facts do not condizem with what it comes being spread, mainly, in the Internet.
PB: E on the French option, exists some counterpoint?
CCSM: After withheld analysis of the projects technician and the presented commercial proposals, comparing its respective advantages and disadvantages, the Admiralty concluded that, of the strategical and operational point of view, the submarines took care of to the requirements of the Navy. However, in view of the convenience of if preventing the duplicity of logistic costs, to support submarines of different origins, and considering the vultosos investments carried through for the Navy throughout the two last decades, in different conotadas goals to the submarines IKL, associates to the culture and the technology assimilated in this period for ours technician (engineers and laborers) and crews (official and squares), in relation to the constructive, logistic processes, of maintenance and operation of these ways, the Admiralty, in 11 of November of 2005, it ratified the standardization of projected submarines according to methods and processes of origin German, of line IKL-HDW, for job in naval operations in the Navy of Brazil.
Question of reader of blog: Who is responsible for the project of nuclear submarine TUPÍ? it has how much time is in development? how much already it was invested in this project?
CCSM: For clarity and precision in the information, is necessary to clarify, of beginning, that never had a “project of construction of the nuclear submarine” as presented in the question. As said, it does not have, - nor never it had -, a “project of construction of the nuclear submarine”; it exists a nuclear program lead by the Navy of Brazil (MB), made up of two great projects: the Project of the Cycle of the Fuel and the Project of the Laboratory of Geração Nucleus-Electric (LABGENE). In the Project of the Cycle of the Fuel, the technology already practically is dominated.
How much to the LABGENE, project that aims at the development and the construction of a nuclear plant of generation of electric energy, its workmanships of assembly are in progress. After only developed these projects and cheated success in the operation of this nuclear plant, conditions will be created so that, in the future, having decision of government for such, it can be given to beginning to the elaboration of the project and construction of a submarine with nuclear propulsion, or nuclear submarine of attack (SNA).
The first phase, that represented, in the reality, a technological jump, was reached by the MB in the end of the decade of 1980, with the enrichment of Uranian in laboratorial scale, what it means the virtual domain of the technology. However, from then on, the arcado Navy was not counted more with enough resources for the development of the program, having, throughout last almost the 20 years, with considerable parcel of its reduced budget, to keep the program, as a whole, in vegetative state practically, limited little more than what the preservation of the knowledge (human resources).
The only way to prevent the loss of everything what e was invested, mainly, of what it was reached, is the transformation of the program of the Navy in a national project, with guarantee of continued allocation of resources. For in such a way, the great Ministry of the Defense and Navy have fact efforts, in the direction to transmit this necessity to them parliamentarians and to the public opinion, by means of the promotion of visits to its nuclear installations, presentations and lectures.
Of the beginning of the Nuclear Program of Marinha (PNM), in the end of years 70, until the moment, 1.1 billion had been invested to a US$ total. To conclude the LABGENE, the expenditure throughout the years, the ending of the fuel cycle and the ending of the infrastructure require a volume of resources of the order of R$ 1.1 billion (of Reals).
