It is my understanding that procurement is only open to Lada/Amur, U212/214 and Scorpene (or the S80 evolved from it). Though it could change if Germany, France and Spain refrain from selling for political reasons and Venezuela wants to bring some competition into a procurement that would be limited to the Russian shipyards.
how so? russian seatime in the last 18 years has been tragic. they're losing 22-26 submarines per year, they can't stay current unless they're at sea. the sailors who are demobbed have almost no relevant skills with modern digital subs. the russians have been unloading their most unskilled for the last 15 years. they're keeping their best ones employed.
I agree with conte, but the S-80 is already discarded, a great part of the systems of the submarine are German, Italian & US patented, so...
The question will be if the French Government would approve a deal for the Scorpene finally. Zapatero is a "friend" of the Chavez Government, he blessed the contract for 8 OPVs signed by the Chavez regime with Navantia the last year. So, no predicted problems by the Spanish side to any deal with Venezuela.contedicavour said:
hmm, China never exports its latest stuff. And in the case of Yuan, I'm not convinced that it has achieved IOC. So, I would think the maximum that are offered to Venezeulans would be a 039G.
You are assuming only US assets would be involved. If Venezuela spreads its 9 future SSKs across the Carib, surely a few more NATO countries than just the US would provide combat resources in view of their national interests e.g. Netherlands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, other Netherlands Antilles isles), France (Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana), UK (Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Montserrat etc). Also, lets not discount other South American countries and navies, e.g Brazil. Netherlands, France and Brazil do have some efficient SSKs.
Hi guys all of you brought up some very good points but the bottomline is something is better than nothing.Chavez is trying to prove a point to the US first the SU-27'S,then right after winning his election he declared to convert venezuela into a socialistic state and now this 9 SSK's.So i personally think he will be going for the armur and who knows he might get a discount from the russians
Too much assumtions here. Russians also claim they SSN and SSK's regulary follow US CVBG's and SSBN's undetected. And? Besides, russian submarines had much higher degree of automatisation than western subs. So much for quantity... This is just common western propaganda myth, nothing more. And any self-respecting man shouldn't fall to such cheap prejudice.
Hmmm... this sounds very like what was said about Japanese aircraft and pilots before 7 December 1941! Allied pilots confronting Zero fighters, flown by superb naval pilots, soon changed there mind when the real fighting started.
I'd suggest that you'd know as well as I do that Parche was not harvesting in an EEZ - she was getting up close and personal on double digit mission counts - and right into northern fleet command areas where she successfully spliced into NF comms seabed cables. Her primary mission was collection - you don't collect in an EEZ. Parche was not the only asset doing this, RN and RAN subs were doing similar ops in the East - and these missions have only been vaguely presented under the 30 year release rule - but specifics are still classified.
G'day gf
I'll have to rummage around in the U Stow It as I packed up my miltech/milhistory library on my last shift from interstate.
Man, again, russian submarines claim doing the very same regarding USA bases. And???? What should that prove???
That they were good at their job?
Rubbish. 1 example. All 5 soviet sub drivers explicitly stated that they had orders to fire and engage without direction during the cuban crisis. All 5 of the subs had one nuclear torpedo each. All 5 admitted that they were unsure of the outcome and would have loosed if no options were left. Conversely all ASW groups tasked to follow those subs (which they tracked from their bases) were given permission to sink those subs if they deemed they about to perform a hostile act. That wasn't unsual. Are you suggesting that the then Soviet Northern Fleet commander lied to Polmar just to give a good story?
nfloorl: Is there a cold war on now?
nfloorl: Was the Soviet Union ever in an incestuous capital relationship with the US like China is?During Cuban crisis! Got it?? How many days that crisis lasted? 10?That they were good at their job?
Rubbish. 1 example. All 5 soviet sub drivers explicitly stated that they had orders to fire and engage without direction during the cuban crisis. All 5 of the subs had one nuclear torpedo each. All 5 admitted that they were unsure of the outcome and would have loosed if no options were left. Conversely all ASW groups tasked to follow those subs (which they tracked from their bases) were given permission to sink those subs if they deemed they about to perform a hostile act. That wasn't unsual. Are you suggesting that the then Soviet Northern Fleet commander lied to Polmar just to give a good story?
Yes, advised. And not pif-paf right away. I'm almost 100% sure russian sub would leave its place anyway. And i'm 100% sure that was not the first (and not last) time these subs sailed that place.
That exactly what i meant. Inside they territorrial waters swedes could even attack unindetified sub - if they sure its not friendly of course. But how many times any big SSBN subs entered hostile territorial waters? I'm sure in very, very rare occasions.
IN THEY SOVEREIGN SPACE. Not somewhere over Indian Ocean.Example 4. Ever counted how many USAAF, USAF and USN comms aircraft were shot down by the Soviets, Chinese and North Koreans? Some 30+ aircraft were shot down since the end of WW2 to 1989. Geez, you don;t even know what your own side did and you want to argue about submarine incidents?
Again, even during Cold War noone would attack anything outside 20km territorial waters. And for the note, what should US do with that Iranian UAV? Shot it down? For what? Such behaviour can be considered only as "gangster" behaviour. Not what USA dont behave as one often, just not every time...Is there a cold war on now?
Is Iran a clear and present threat via a UAV that can't carry anything heavier than an exenon bulbed miners search light?
You said it yourself.