Cuban Military

[NZLAV]

Hi
I would like to know how much equipment the cuban military has and how capable they are. Are there any projects/purchases planned?
I know that cuban has about 2 dozen patrol boast armed with SSMs. They use maily 80's soviet equipment. But I would like to see what they have to offer at the warhames happeneing soon.

 

[contedicavour]

Hi
I would like to know how much equipemtn the cuban military has and how capable they are. Are there any projects/purchases planned?
I know that cuban has about 2 dozen patrol boast armed with SSMs. They use maily 80's soviet equipment. But I would like to see what they have to offer at the warhames happeneing soon.

Which wargames ?
Is Chavez trying to run wargames of allied anti-American countries or what ??
Besides, with what equipment ? The air force is down to a few dozen so-so operational Floggers and half a dozen Fulcrums A-variant ... the navy has virtually ceased to exist with no frigates, corvettes or submarines left. The only operational ships are Border Guard patrol ships of Russian origin (which don't carry SSMs btw).

cheers

 

[NZLAV]

I'm sure I read some where that they do carry SSM's. The wargames are happened on december the 2nd for a few days. Apparently China has been supplying Cuba with spare parts that they bought off the Russians. I think they have more than 2 dozen fighters operational. They have 150 fighters total. If they spent a few billion they could have them all goin tomorrow. They have a large number of T-55's t my knowledge, they are well maintaned.

 

[NZLAV]

Whoops thought I'd better post a source :http://www.cubapolidata.com/cafr/news/2005.html
They also have t-62's which they didn't have a few years back, mayby they are mobilising?

 

[Big-E]

Whoops thought I'd better post a source :http://www.cubapolidata.com/cafr/news/2005.html

Cuban MIGs simulate enemy fighters,
while a BTR armored personnel carrier with a
mortar on top targets planes. [Photo: Granma]

nfloorl: nfloorl:

I don't think anyone has to worry about Cuba except the Cubans.

 

[wittmanace]

the cuban army may not be a huge threat exactly in the form you are thinking of, but if we look back to angola, for example, this truly terrified the us. that was limited aid, but with training and units sent into combat. they did defeat us and others supported south africa in open conflict. cuito canavale anyone? i also suspect the issue in the picture is an error on the part of the media, rather than the military application of a mortar. south african accounts of the abilities of cuban soldiers were positive to say the least, they fought hard and were able to rely on determination as well as skill in combat. there is some literature on this, alot by galago press. its actually very interesting and (to me it was) rather surprising...

 

[Big-E]

the cuban army may not be a huge threat exactly in the form you are thinking of, but if we look back to angola, for example, this truly terrified the us. that was limited aid, but with training and units sent into combat. they did defeat us and others supported south africa in open conflict. cuito canavale anyone? i also suspect the issue in the picture is an error on the part of the media, rather than the military application of a mortar. south african accounts of the abilities of cuban soldiers were positive to say the least, they fought hard and were able to rely on determination as well as skill in combat. there is some literature on this, alot by galago press. its actually very interesting and (to me it was) rather surprising...

Really... that's not how I remember Cuito Cuanavale. As I recall the SADFs gave the Cubans one hell of a bloody nose. SADF suffered 31 casualties to 4,000 Cuban and FAPLA forces. Their artillery was quite devastating. I have heard reports that the Cuban MIGs gave the most innefficient CAS in the history of the world in that battle.

 

[contedicavour]

I'd just say it was a different world ... the 1980s were among the hottest of the Cold War, and Cubans expeditionary forces, supplied with the best equipment in the Soviet arsenal and with huge budgets, had a very high morale and were ideologically brainwashed. No wonder they performed well (and still, relatively well) against African armies (such as the 1977 Somalian army) or guerrillas (the Eritreans or the UNITA in Angola). It was already much tougher against the SADF.

Today's Cuba is very short of cash and the strength of ideology is washing away, replaced more by a a typical jealous small country/big country relationship. Chavez is providing almost free oil to keep the economy running, but I don't see how 2 dozen already relatively old Fulcrum A/Bs (I'm not even sure they carry R-77), not to mention obsolete Floggers and Fishbeds, could be worth something just 100 miles south of USAF bases.
Their navy has stopped functioning, it's the Border Guard that still operates a few minesweepers (used for patrol) and Zhuk patrol boats. The largest ship is a 57-metre Russian patrol ship with no SSMs.
The army is now not deployable overseas anymore. Though of course, as in any defensive conflict, it could still provide a very stiff resistance to invading forces, and keep alive for decades a guerrilla war.
To summarize, provided nobody tries to invade Cuba, it isn't a threat to anyone any longer.

cheers

 

[wittmanace]

BIG-E,

we, i think, can agree to disagree on this issue. the estimates of casualties vary very much. id add that when i was referring to cuito cuanavale, i was referring to the defense thereof, rather than the prior offensives launched from there. im referring to sadf operation packer, rather than mpla/cuban offensice operations. this succeeded strategically (battle was actually for lumbango, and cuito cuanavale was held against sadf and unita offensives).

in theinterest of impartiality, id also add and onfess i might be biased in this one case, as im part namibian and we see this as almost the basis of our independence struggle maturing. i did also live in angola until namibian independence....so again, in this one instance id say i am perhaps not entirely impartial.

but, if youre interested, there are good accounts of these engagements in various books from galago press and peter stiff in particular. it is very interesting and i imagine you might find out alot that you didnt know, as these books are usually based on interviews with the combatants themselves... so, again, if youre interested, theyre very enlightening and give good first hand accounts.

 

[.pt]

Interesting you mentioned Cuito canavales battles (there were more than one).
Cuban armed forces in Angola Fared not so well in my opinion, depending onthe period in question. At one time Cuito canavale and all of its envolving battles, were some of the fiercest engagements in terms of artillery and armored warfare in the cold war period. Large numbers of personnel and vehicles involved, in a shitty, little known war. That was at the time money and materiel were pouring from SU. Nowadays it ´s just like Contedicavour pointed.
.pt

 

[wittmanace]

see, the history in southern africa is that the cubans fought very well as bush fighters, and were against the worlds best light infantry. 32 battalion, 101 battalion.....the recces,etc. were the best light infantry in the world, but the cubans were very good bush fighters. i wonder how much of their training has been evolved from their extensive experiences of war...if they truly learnt from their involvements, they should have a formidable guerilla training program, given all the areas they were involved. anyone have any info on this either way?

 

[Aussie Digger]

see, the history in southern africa is that the cubans fought very well as bush fighters, and were against the worlds best light infantry. 32 battalion, 101 battalion.....the recces,etc. were the best light infantry in the world, but the cubans were very good bush fighters. i wonder how much of their training has been evolved from their extensive experiences of war...if they truly learnt from their involvements, they should have a formidable guerilla training program, given all the areas they were involved. anyone have any info on this either way?

Let me guess, you're a South African?

The SADF is a very competent and capable force, but "world's best" is very subjective.

It's not as if they fought another "first world" military force on equal terms...

 

[wittmanace]

nope, im not a south african. im part namibian...we were occupied by them...i have no bias towards the south african forces of that time AT ALL. i stated in a previous post that i might have a bias in this instance, but it is most certainly not towards the forces of apartheid south africa.

 

[Big-E]

i stated in a previous post that i might have a bias in this instance, but it is most certainly not towards the forces of apartheid south africa.

Your part Namibian and you have NO bias against apartheid SADF... nfloorl:

Mod editath:No ad hominem allowed.

 

[wittmanace]

im sdaying i have no bias that would lead me to promote the sadf. i have no bias for them, if anything against them. you seem to enjoy trying to annoy people big-e, why dont you just read my post and use common sense and youll understand exactly what im saying.

 

[Izzy1]

In terms of numerical superiority, Cuba's ground forces of 37,000 regulars (plus very sizable militia and reserves) remain one of the strongest in Latin America. The ground forces are generally also considered to be professional in nature and well led.

However, the removal of the Soviet Union as its major benefactor has led to drastic cuts in funding - crippling servicability rates, reducing training and limiting new equipment expenditures to a very bare minimum. Described in the 1980s as the "Trojan Horse" of Latin America, Cuba's Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias is today a pale shadow of its former self.

In terms of equipment, FAR can probably call upon some 700 'servicable' MBT, with the majority of these being older T-54/55s with the balance in T-62s. Jane's World Armies estimates that a further 150 BMP-1 and 300 various BTR-Type APCs can also be called upon. There are sizable stocks of artillery, mortar and BM-21 MRL also available.

There is a serious lack of modern ATGW systems within FAR, and a heavy reliance on D-44 85mm anti-tank guns within A/T companies. RPGs are however in plentiful supply as well as various landmines and recoilless rifles.

Likewise, FAR's air defences are pretty comprehensive with modest numbers of SA-6, SA-8, SA-9 and SA-13 mobile systems assigned to the armoured/mechanised forces. There have also been local developments to mount SA-2 and SA-3 SAMs on T-54/55 chassis. Large quantities of SA-7, SA-14 and SA-16 MANPADS are also available. Finally, large quantities of AAA of various calibre are availble as well as a regiment of SP-AAA in the form of the ZSU-57-2 and ZSU-23-4.

To support guerilla warfare by the large militia formations, numerous stocks of small arms have been developed and maintained for several decades.

 

[wittmanace]

great post! where did you get the information on the cuban use of the sa-6? this would be interesting...i never knew the cubans used the sa-6..any idea on numbers? as for t-54/55 mounting sams, is this developed entirely in cuba or in conjunction with eastern european nations?

 

[Izzy1]

Sorry yes, my usual sources for the post were Jane's World Armies (Online Edition updated 15/11/06) and IISS's The Military Balance 2005 .

Jane's puts FAR's SA-6 strength at 12 in-service units, with similar numbers of SA-8, SA-9 and SA-13.

In regards the SA-2/SA-3 conversions, Jane's World Armies states the following:

In April 2006, two new mobile versions of the Soviet era S-75 (SA-2 Guideline) and S-125 (SA-3 Goa) were displayed during the 45th anniversary celebrations of the creation of Communist Cuba's air force and air defences (Defensa Antiaerea y Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria (DAAFAR)). These SAMs are mounted on the chassis for the T-54/55 Main Battle Tanks probably taken out from the main armour stock in country. China has done the same for the S-75 system and Poland with the S-125.

I would not be surprised if China has not provided some form of technical assitance in Cuba's endeavour.

 

[Ths]

Technical assistance from China??
Considering they keep american cars from the 1950'ies running on a daily basis should lead you to surmise they can keep their old junk running all by themselves.

 

[eckherl]

Technical assistance from China??
Considering they keep american cars from the 1950'ies running on a daily basis should lead you to surmise they can keep their old junk running all by themselves.

Yep - only American cars can you keep running like that. Hey, with all the steel that they are made out of, maybe Cuba should use those as a weapons platforms.nfloorl: