North Korea "Conducts Nuke Test!"

[abramsteve]

As far as Im concerned yes it is ok that the US has nukes and that no-one else should be allowed. Yes thats hypocritical, but Id rather it was us being hypocritical than NK, Iran or any other nation really. Surley you wouldnt prefer them having them to the Yanks? Oh hang on some people probably would cause they are led by a madman are'nt they....

Comparing Bush to Hitler and calling him a madman is rediculous, as is 'the Americans have them so why cant they argument'. Thats my view and it wont be changed unfortunatley, feel free to try though, you wont be the first.

 

[Xerxesa]

As far as Im concerned yes it is ok that the US has nukes and that no-one else should be allowed. Yes thats hypocritical, but Id rather it was us being hypocritical than NK, Iran or any other nation really. Surley you wouldnt prefer them having them to the Yanks? Oh hang on some people probably would cause they are led by a madman are'nt they....

Comparing Bush to Hitler and calling him a madman is rediculous, as is 'the Americans have them so why cant they argument'. Thats my view and it wont be changed unfortunatley, feel free to try though, you wont be the first.

Probably because you have a cultural link with the United States. That is understandable. Stalin with a whooping 45 million killed on his CV had nuclear weapons as well. Mao with another whooping 30 million Chinese killed on his CV had also nuclear weapons. I think they were both madman.

Anyways, the way I see is that most people in the west, justify their POV by simply saying that imagine if Saddam or another Middle eastern was the world superpower and then they aregue how it would be and everything. I respectfully think that is quite stupid. You cannot just change one parameter in history and make a comparision. Ofcourse if the an large political entity in the middle east had tremoundos political and military influence worldwide, then it would be that middle eastern entity setting up petty dictators in the entire Americas to do its will.

and I would say ==>

As far as Im concerned yes it is ok that the Middleastern Empire has nukes and that no-one else should be allowed. Yes thats hypocritical, but Id rather it was us being hypocritical than the Americas or Europe really. Surley you wouldnt prefer them having them to the Middleastern? Oh hang on some people probably would cause they are led by a madman are'nt they....
Thats my view and it wont be changed unfortunatley, feel free to try though, you wont be the first.

Sounsds funny does it not??

 

[Xerxesa]

Please North Korea and Iran would not have Nuclear weapons to defend themselves they have shown in the past with statements and actions they don't have peaceful agenda's. Iran's Regime has stated it wants to wipe Israel from the face of the earth, do you consider that defensive? Not to mention that it wasn't possible to halt the russians from developing the bomb without full scale conventional war after which Europe first then the US would not of had the willpower to fight such a huge war where already devasted Europe was the playground

Does it matter what the Iranian regime had said about Israel?????
Bush and Sharon and more then one occasion said there is a need for regime change in Iran. Aren't they the samething????

Well. let me tell you something. The Iranian threat is empty, while if US/Israel wants to remove the regime they could do it. So basically it boils down to wether you want to base you judgment on an fictual Iranian-nuclear-missile launched against Israel (which no doubt will end with total destruction of Iran) or the real threat of US/Israel military actions against the Iran, with limited Iranian response. You seem to think the fictual nuclear Iranian threat is more valid then the actual US/Israel threat to Iran. But then again ofcourse you are from the west.

The effect of ******-dominated media is amazing. So many thoughts bended and controlled. Dr. Goebelle would be proud of this achievement in America.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

is your country ready, Uncle Kim is more a threat to you than he is to us right now.

Damn right we are!!! We'll march the wallabies up to the DMZ. 80 000 arty tubes cant stop our forward pack!!!:

dioditto, I agree with you in principle, especially re isreal but in reality the "you've got them so why cant we" argument doesnt hold water. I think we can all agree that the world would be a much better place without nukes, but like it or not their here and the LESS nations that have them the better. So for the security of the plannet, espiecally when we're dealing with something that could potentially destroy us all, i can deal with a bit of hipocracy.

 

[dioditto]

Who cares now if the Iraq war was just or not, we're there now, lets get the frakkin job done right, sick and tired of all this arguing post event, Sh*t happens.

How is it ever going to be a job "done right"?
50,000 ~ 100,000 Civilian casualties so far. Almost everyone in Iraq have lost some relatives or loveones that can be attributed to this war. The longer we are there, the deeper the grudge we are building and spreading fanatical anti-western resentments and helps the terrorists to win THEIR WAR.

Put yourself in their shoe. If someone comes into your house even in the name of removing your abusive father (assuming you have one) but in the process, killed your mother, your sisters, and your brothers, are you going to forgive him ?

 

[dioditto]

If you apply that to the iraqis, I feel sorry for you americans (and ofcourse us australians who had to join you on this unjust war in iraq) since "nothing is ever going to be forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten" from the iraqi perspective. Remembers, if you are so ready to bear a grudge and dish out terror to others, be prepared to be on the receiving end too.

The majority of Americans do not want to be in Iraq. You can rest assured that we are willing to accept our knocks and blows with this, we do have the resolve to finish the job and we will, is your country ready, Uncle Kim is more a threat to you than he is to us right now.

He is not a threat to us right now, or even 30 years down the track. Kim needs to deal with South Korea first which has an extremely strong, and technologically advanced army already. After that, he will have to deal with Japan, or perhaps the combine of the two. Least not forget, the americans won't be watching.

 

[icelord]

How is it ever going to be a job "done right"?
50,000 ~ 100,000 Civilian casualties so far. Almost everyone in Iraq have lost some relatives or loveones that can be attributed to this war. The longer we are there, the deeper the grudge we are building and spreading fanatical anti-western resentments and helps the terrorists to win THEIR WAR.

Put yourself in their shoe. If someone comes into your house even in the name of removing your abusive father (assuming you have one) but in the process, killed your mother, your sisters, and your brothers, are you going to forgive him ?

Ahh the advantage of being an Aussie Digger, we not only take the father, but the neighbour whose been dealing weapons out of the back shed. You can't combine the efforts of the US, UK, and Aussies. UK has handed over a province, as have Aus. US don't look anywhere near ready, and keep in mind they were'nt the easiest of places, the point is, even the insurgents know they are dealing with two types of efforts, the recent attack at the police station was a concentrated effort to eliminate them, and from past experiences, would have killed a couple of US soldiers, our boys got in there, dug in, and took them on before taking the cleared road ou the back because there were to many civies in the area, try seeing that with a squad of Marines.

I agree with ozzy blizzard in that the less nations that have Nukes the better, but you want the world to pay attention to what you say without being called a hypocrite, trying bringing down your own arsenel to say 100, rather then 100,000.

 

[swerve]

I think you have the wrong end of the stick there, Swerve's post mentions North Korean Leadership, not all North Koreans.

Thank you.

 

[swerve]

It is not reasonable to CATEGORICALLY label ALL of the muslims, or North Koreans insane or suicidal. Last I check, north koreans are not defined as a cult group, nor is muslims.

As for "rationality within an insane set of assumption", that would put ALL OF THE AMERICANS (as per your definition) under the cult of Bushism. To pre-emptively attack and invade a sovereign nation (even without any shred of proof). That to me is (quote from you) "rationality within an insane set of assumptions, then it is reasonable to call it insane."

I - deliberately, because it's what I think of them - described the North Korean leadership as a small & atypical group. I'm not sure how you get from that to me categorically labelling all North Koreans as insane or suicidal. I didn't mention Muslims at all, nor Americans.

Please don't project your own ideas onto me, & please stop telling lies about me.

 

[webmaster]

Lets get back to the topic folks! No cat fights, please.

 

[ever4244]

As far as Im concerned yes it is ok that the US has nukes and that no-one else should be allowed. Yes thats hypocritical, but Id rather it was us being hypocritical than NK, Iran or any other nation really. Surley you wouldnt prefer them having them to the Yanks? Oh hang on some people probably would cause they are led by a madman are'nt they....

Comparing Bush to Hitler and calling him a madman is rediculous, as is 'the Americans have them so why cant they argument'. Thats my view and it wont be changed unfortunatley, feel free to try though, you wont be the first.

You just think in western ways and apart from US and EU we are all heathenry lead by a mad men. Just look back to history , any of the so called civilize country hasn t wash their hand clean from slavery ,colonize and invasion. I can say 90% death in recent 200 years is directly or indirectly caused by those modern crusade. So by what right do you think just US and EU country should have Nuke ----not to mention US are so far the only country has used it . This theory sounds to me just like an preach by an ex-robber who built it s title and wealth upon it s victims and afterwards telling his victims to be civilized and respect human rights. Funny , I am sorry for being rude , but we asian value history , and nearly every asia country has blood-and-tear story pass from generations to warn us not be ravage by the strong again. Just think by yourself why there was many country follow the communilism after WW2,not because it s sounds cool, just because we ve suffered so much from your bloody capitalism.That is a lesson both the strong and weak have to learn ,for the world maybe more peaceful if there were no people with such arrogance to judge every other with blinkers.

Finally, korean is very pride , as far as i know , they ve got a very strong sense of nation . That s very understandble after being ravaged by western and japan in 19 and 20 century . But after division , SK focus on their economic achievements while NK focus on their military and political independent , and both of them feel pride on their achievements----do not your blinkers to demonstrate it. The south work hard on their national brand and found their national pride on defeat other foreign brand while the nouth try to not depend on China and russian to establish its un-breakable sovereignty for kerean don t want to be dominate by others no matter US russia or even china as their oldest ally .

the Nuke test is that kind of struggle for it s clear the test will be a blow to china and a trouble to russia , but still NK resisted any pressure and even deceive us to get the Nuke test underway .Why , to a small nation sandwiched between china russia ,and US, 3 of the most powerful country in the world , other country may try to ally with one and being protected , but korean doesn t not want to be anyone s followers accord to their national pride , So they play us russia and US and survive in the crevice between the 3.

 

[abramsteve]

Hey I value history, especially modern history... if you see what Im getting at. And thats what leads me to my line of thought. Claiming history as an excuse is a dangerous double edged sword.

Maybe my history is different to yours. I would bet it is actually.

I sure hope the North Koreans are proud of their military, someones gotta be I suppose. And if they are truely happy with the state of their nation then good luck to them. But being able to point a gun at someones head doesnt make you a better and more respected person, just a threat, and the same applys for nations.


Like I said, thats my opinion, yes its arrogant and I to some extent appologise for that. But not for having one.

 

[icelord]

Like I said, thats my opinion, yes its arrogant and I to some extent appologise for that. But not for having one.

Wow, steve with a opposing opinion what is going on?

As is scary and normal, i'm gunna agree with steve, History is no excuse to have a nuke, and the biggest advantage of history is that you learn from its mistakes, Einstein learned the hard way his, and the US learned the hard way Nukes were not the answer, thats how MAD came about.

The thing that stops India, Pakistan, America, USA, France and Israel from Using a nuke to wipe out anyone that pisses them off is MAD, if one uses it, another does in fear of First strike against them and yadda yadda yadda. The point is, if the North gets the nuke, then a man who is more then happy to let his own people starve just to keep his status Quo, is more then likely to attack his Enemies with a WMD. Hell, the man has more chemical weapons then anyones willing to admit, and thats why no one is game to attack, cause of Chemical MAD. A nuke is a big difference in the situation, and if that Ronery Dictator gets his hands on one, the shit will hit the fan, and Asian History for someone will be removed completely.

 

[eckherl]

You just think in western ways and apart from US and EU we are all heathenry lead by a mad men. Just look back to history , any of the so called civilize country hasn t wash their hand clean from slavery ,colonize and invasion. I can say 90% death in recent 200 years is directly or indirectly caused by those modern crusade. So by what right do you think just US and EU country should have Nuke ----not to mention US are so far the only country has used it . This theory sounds to me just like an preach by an ex-robber who built it s title and wealth upon it s victims and afterwards telling his victims to be civilized and respect human rights. Funny , I am sorry for being rude , but we asian value history , and nearly every asia country has blood-and-tear story pass from generations to warn us not be ravage by the strong again. Just think by yourself why there was many country follow the communilism after WW2,not because it s sounds cool, just because we ve suffered so much from your bloody capitalism.That is a lesson both the strong and weak have to learn ,for the world maybe more peaceful if there were no people with such arrogance to judge every other with blinkers.

Finally, korean is very pride , as far as i know , they ve got a very strong sense of nation . That s very understandble after being ravaged by western and japan in 19 and 20 century . But after division , SK focus on their economic achievements while NK focus on their military and political independent , and both of them feel pride on their achievements----do not your blinkers to demonstrate it. The south work hard on their national brand and found their national pride on defeat other foreign brand while the nouth try to not depend on China and russian to establish its un-breakable sovereignty for kerean don t want to be dominate by others no matter US russia or even china as their oldest ally .

the Nuke test is that kind of struggle for it s clear the test will be a blow to china and a trouble to russia , but still NK resisted any pressure and even deceive us to get the Nuke test underway .Why , to a small nation sandwiched between china russia ,and US, 3 of the most powerful country in the world , other country may try to ally with one and being protected , but korean doesn t not want to be anyone s followers accord to their national pride , So they play us russia and US and survive in the crevice between the 3.

You can`t tell me that the little tyrannt tested a nuke because of national pride, they did it for blackmail and this time it will blow up in there faces, North Korean people are oppressed, starved while he keeps his fat mouth full of cognac and what ever he indulges in. Food that is brought in to feed his people he gives to his army, he counted on the Soviet Union for years to keep them going, now they rely on China and China won`t take a tougher stance because they do not want the possibility of a free Democratic style government on their border. In the end because of his sick spin on life and pride the South Korean people have to worry about being nuked, his own people will continue to starve and die in the Goulags. North Korean citizens do not have a sense of pride, they would just be happy for a few bowls of rice to feed their children and themselves.

 

[Grand Danois]

You just think in western ways and apart from US and EU we are all heathenry lead by a mad men.

You underestimate Westerners ability to comprehend how others are thinking.

Just look back to history , any of the so called civilize country hasn t wash their hand clean from slavery ,colonize and invasion.

Please tell us, how can wash our hands, so that you will never ever hold it against us again.

And what has something that happened more than 150 years ago to do with the living people today. We are not responsible, we should not be barred from prosecuting our foreign and security policies on these grounds. Should we submit to other civilisations because they are alledgedly morally clean?

You should also know that the value system of the people living centuries ago was different, and considered normal at the time. Things change. Perhaps you should go find out where slavery happens today...

I can say 90% death in recent 200 years is directly or indirectly caused by those modern crusade.

Documentation. Global death by cause in the last 200 years. Not select snippets... Ah, never mind. It will be a pointless discussion. And not suited for these boards.

So by what right do you think just US and EU country should have Nuke ----not to mention US are so far the only country has used it .

The West doesn't claim the 'right' to have nukes. They just recognise when it is a bad idea for a country to have them. So should China. Regarding use of nuke - consider context, instead of implying the following;

This theory sounds to me just like an preach by an ex-robber who built it s title and wealth upon it s victims and afterwards telling his victims to be civilized and respect human rights.

Perhaps you are overemphasizing the evil the West has done?

Funny , I am sorry for being rude , but we asian value history , and nearly every asia country has blood-and-tear story pass from generations to warn us not be ravage by the strong again.

Then I will expect no neo-colonialism in, say, Africa from China.

 

[ever4244]

Like I said, thats my opinion, yes its arrogant and I to some extent appologise for that. But not for having one.

accept , and i am sorry for going to extreme myself. What i am geting at is not whether DPRK should have Nuke but weak country should have the capability to defend herself from being puppet by large nation. If i ever stand in the interest of china, then DPRK should never access to nuclear, so she will be of much obedience to china than now.but china would not lend a hand to DPRK if it attacked by US now ,so what can she do ? Irap is the best example, who destory all his MDW and being invaded by US shortly after.