Well here you go China and Russia - your influence and charm has done alot of good restraining your little brothers, IMJINGOO! The great United Nations has been really effective inregards to matters like this, I guess everyone will eventually get to the point to where they are pointing the blame at my country for not appeasing a dictator that starves and tortures his own people. I do not blame Japan for wanting to re arm it`s military and if they go with nukes who can blame them for that, now China has bigger problems in the long run, they will not be the only players in that region, you have given the Japaneese the excuse that they have been waiting for to rewrite their constitution. South Korea will not have a choice now but to make a stand and stop rewarding a tryrant, we will see the response from this test and it will not amount to a hill of beans from the so called security counsel. It would be poetic justice to see uncle Kim launch one of his new Opperhiemer toys at you China, but he is more pissed at my country for not giving him money to feed his military and when he decides to commit sucide he will eventually try to launch one at us.
North Korea "Conducts Nuke Test!"
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
Dio, mate, next time don't do so much frigging typing, its hard 2 keep up early in the morning, you worked out urself how to deal with everyone else
Now thats just plain rude, there is no madman in the white house, and i'm sure the US leader is very nice person, I've seen Laura bush come across on Tv as very...nice.
Alright, time to get into the pit, NK fired their big toy, woop de doo, its kind of an overreaction really, everyone needs to step back, look at the situation and go, meh
Most scientists these days can make a nuke in their backyard, let alone an entire nation of 2nd class nuts and Dr Evils making it in a country. My point is, everyone can build a bomb, its just the will to use it thats hard, hell, even truman had second thoughts, and hes the only one to do it.
Kim gong bill may act all tough, but hes just want attention, see hes just:
I'm so ronery, so ronery, so ronery and sadry arone. deres no one, just me onry, sitting on my rittle throne.
"I wook rearry hard, and make great plans. But nobody listens, no one uunderstands... Seems no one takes me SER-RE-ROUS-REEEEEEEEE....
And so...i'm rone-ry...A rittle rone-ry...Roor rittle me"
Now if Kim wong silly is being controlled by the military, would they really be as hawkish as to attack the south, seeing as they gotta get throught the DMZ, which would take a while to clear through the minefield, then get past the 100,000-300,000 Troops, all this bravado and show boating, i don't see it going anywhere, until NK starves to death, then they'll barge across the border to food, hell it might even be part of their plan, to seize the southern food factories.
It just seems like a big Arse PR stunt for the NK, and they like doing that for their people alot.
dioditto said:
Now thats just plain rude, there is no madman in the white house, and i'm sure the US leader is very nice person, I've seen Laura bush come across on Tv as very...nice.
Alright, time to get into the pit, NK fired their big toy, woop de doo, its kind of an overreaction really, everyone needs to step back, look at the situation and go, meh
Most scientists these days can make a nuke in their backyard, let alone an entire nation of 2nd class nuts and Dr Evils making it in a country. My point is, everyone can build a bomb, its just the will to use it thats hard, hell, even truman had second thoughts, and hes the only one to do it.
Kim gong bill may act all tough, but hes just want attention, see hes just:
I'm so ronery, so ronery, so ronery and sadry arone. deres no one, just me onry, sitting on my rittle throne.
"I wook rearry hard, and make great plans. But nobody listens, no one uunderstands... Seems no one takes me SER-RE-ROUS-REEEEEEEEE....
And so...i'm rone-ry...A rittle rone-ry...Roor rittle me"
Now if Kim wong silly is being controlled by the military, would they really be as hawkish as to attack the south, seeing as they gotta get throught the DMZ, which would take a while to clear through the minefield, then get past the 100,000-300,000 Troops, all this bravado and show boating, i don't see it going anywhere, until NK starves to death, then they'll barge across the border to food, hell it might even be part of their plan, to seize the southern food factories.
It just seems like a big Arse PR stunt for the NK, and they like doing that for their people alot.
Grand Danois said:
How is it just "restrains" the western powers? Are you implying that by loosing the "privilege" of nukes is not to your liking?
So, you are basically saying only the few US deem worthy (preferably allies, or ones we can't disarm) can own the nukes, while the rest of the crowd should not.
Ofcourse, the ideal situation would be, NOBODY owns the nuke, and everyone disarm from having such weapon of mass destruction. But to you, that's encroaching on your privilege. How is that not hypocrisy?
swerve said:
It is not reasonable to CATEGORICALLY label ALL of the muslims, or North Koreans insane or suicidal. Last I check, north koreans are not defined as a cult group, nor is muslims.
As for "rationality within an insane set of assumption", that would put ALL OF THE AMERICANS (as per your definition) under the cult of Bushism. To pre-emptively attack and invade a sovereign nation (even without any shred of proof). That to me is (quote from you) "rationality within an insane set of assumptions, then it is reasonable to call it insane."
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dioditto said:
I think you have the wrong end of the stick there, Swerve's post mentions North Korean Leadership, not all North Koreans.
North Korea "Conducts Nuke Test"
As for "rationality within an insane set of assumption", that would put ALL OF THE AMERICANS (as per your definition) under the cult of Bushism. To pre-emptively attack and invade a sovereign nation (even without any shred of proof). That to me is "rationality within an insane set of assumptions, then it is reasonable to call it insane."
After losing thousands in the World Trade Center bombings it was real easy to be bitten by the Bushism bug. To all of you out there, Nothing is forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten.
As for "rationality within an insane set of assumption", that would put ALL OF THE AMERICANS (as per your definition) under the cult of Bushism. To pre-emptively attack and invade a sovereign nation (even without any shred of proof). That to me is "rationality within an insane set of assumptions, then it is reasonable to call it insane."
After losing thousands in the World Trade Center bombings it was real easy to be bitten by the Bushism bug. To all of you out there, Nothing is forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten.
icelord said:Now thats just plain rude, there is no madman in the white house, and i'm sure the US leader is very nice person, I've seen Laura bush come across on Tv as very...nice.
LOL!
So, what defines a madman? Gruffy haircut? a nutjob nose? cranked eyes?? Wow, that really puts things in perspective. Mate, you just discover the perfect way to curb crimes and get rid of despot. let's just start rounding up all of the future "madman" base purely on the look. Ofcourse Hitler in the past would have pass with flying color.
LOL
eckherl said:
If you apply that to the iraqis, I feel sorry for you americans (and ofcourse us australians who had to join you on this unjust war in iraq) since "nothing is ever going to be forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten" from the iraqi perspective. Remembers, if you are so ready to bear a grudge and dish out terror to others, be prepared to be on the receiving end too.
One nut- Hitler, Alexander all were free of the restraints of two balls to kill from what i hear, plus they both were a little....:rainbow
And Bob Brown too! He looks rather shifty to me, damn greenies, suckin up to :hippie
And hitler wasn't crazy, he was stupid, you don't go invading russia, while taking on Britain, and then declare war on America while invading Africa attacking the Australians based there, especially the Last part!
Damn karma, only trouble is, these guys have grudges that last hundreds of years and generations of families, but who will have the most, those who hated Saddam and were almost wiped out by him, or those who are attacked by the US?
Grand Danois
Entertainer
dioditto said:
Because the Western powers have signed and live up to said treaty, whilst others like NK, Iran do not.
As explained to you earlier. Germany, Australia, Japan, Sweden...
dioditto said:
No. I am just dealing with reality (and realpolitik). You set up ideal conditions you cannot get, in order to "prove" hypocrisy.
That is not a test of your argument.
powerslavenegi
New Member
Nuke tests and WMD's have been a reason for concern but what is even more alarming is some countries are trying to play Nuke police while they themselves have been defaulters in the past.I believe in the nuclear world when Russia nad US have co-existed for the fear of MAD and have persisted with constant nuclearisation I dont think they have any moral right/authority to question any other country for doing the same(specially the latter),specially when they themselves are found hand in glove directly/indirectly for the nuke proliferation(N-Kor,Iranian,Pakistan,Chinese and Indian nuke programmes some where or the other are linked to either US or Russian programmes) the difference being that while some acquired them via mutual agreement and tech transfer and others via clandestine ops and spying but at the end of the day all have their own Bombs and that is what matters.Same holds good for weapon delivery platforms and missiles.
I promised myself i wasnt going to reply, but..here it comes,
I wasn´t refering to a particular group of people, but some countries political leadership, that being dictatorships do not reflect their peoples view, because they just can´t express it.
As for the "god given right to not live in fear", you are quite wrong. My country albeit small and relatively unimportant in the world stage, was, and still is a menber of NATO, therefore at least the most important cities were targeted by soviet nuclear missiles in the cold war, and probably still are, as well as all the major cities in western Europe. So, we were living under that threat for decades, and we were not afraid??? The difference was that, at the same time most of the people realised that an attack was unlikely, except for major crisis, like the one with the cuban missiles in 1962.
In fact, today that threat still exists, altough it would take a little bit more time to deliver all the weapons, the US, UK, France and Russia still retain a very big arsenal, and the readiness state has declined. So, in a way, mostof the industrialed countries live for 50 years with the nuclear sword hanging over their heads, as well as some other nations. the difference is that these nations never resorted, until now to use them, even waging conventional wars. With a nut like Kim you cannot be sure of this.
As for the bombs released in Japan in Us that was another time, another era, a time of a 6 year old world war, with stunning casualties on both sides, so Truman thought he was right. After that, never the US or other countries, had a stated policy of using Nukes as the primary weapon to wage war.
As for comparing NK and Israel, i ´ll say just this. Israel acts that way , mainly because they want to discourage Arab countries to strike.They had 5 Major wars in 50 years, so are they not afraid of their neighbours?
NK, is not currently threatned by anyone, except perhaps US, and that mainly,because of this nuclear issue. By behaving like that, they are giving the perfect excuse to Us and others to rise tensions, if they were wise, they would just spend the money to feed their people properly, because their regime is protected and backed by both China and Russia, righton their borders. it has not suffered wars or outside intervention, for 50 years, so what is their reasoning to have nukes, just for fun?
.pt
I wasn´t refering to a particular group of people, but some countries political leadership, that being dictatorships do not reflect their peoples view, because they just can´t express it.
As for the "god given right to not live in fear", you are quite wrong. My country albeit small and relatively unimportant in the world stage, was, and still is a menber of NATO, therefore at least the most important cities were targeted by soviet nuclear missiles in the cold war, and probably still are, as well as all the major cities in western Europe. So, we were living under that threat for decades, and we were not afraid??? The difference was that, at the same time most of the people realised that an attack was unlikely, except for major crisis, like the one with the cuban missiles in 1962.
In fact, today that threat still exists, altough it would take a little bit more time to deliver all the weapons, the US, UK, France and Russia still retain a very big arsenal, and the readiness state has declined. So, in a way, mostof the industrialed countries live for 50 years with the nuclear sword hanging over their heads, as well as some other nations. the difference is that these nations never resorted, until now to use them, even waging conventional wars. With a nut like Kim you cannot be sure of this.
As for the bombs released in Japan in Us that was another time, another era, a time of a 6 year old world war, with stunning casualties on both sides, so Truman thought he was right. After that, never the US or other countries, had a stated policy of using Nukes as the primary weapon to wage war.
As for comparing NK and Israel, i ´ll say just this. Israel acts that way , mainly because they want to discourage Arab countries to strike.They had 5 Major wars in 50 years, so are they not afraid of their neighbours?
NK, is not currently threatned by anyone, except perhaps US, and that mainly,because of this nuclear issue. By behaving like that, they are giving the perfect excuse to Us and others to rise tensions, if they were wise, they would just spend the money to feed their people properly, because their regime is protected and backed by both China and Russia, righton their borders. it has not suffered wars or outside intervention, for 50 years, so what is their reasoning to have nukes, just for fun?
.pt
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dioditto said:
I think he is in a lot of trouble over this with China and it may be to a point to where they may work at getting him taken out and replaced with someone with some restraints. They do not want the refugee crisis nor a democratic style government at the Yalu, either way China will have to do something or else Japan and South Korea will embark down that road to having nukes.
swerve said:
Uncle Kim may be a little nuts, but from what other world leaders have said about him is that he is very intellegent and is fully aware of the world situation as it stands today. If you think about it him and his daddy have managed to sucker the North Korean population that they are their salvation, in this day and age with technology and all they are still believing the lie.
North Korea "Conducts Nuke Test"
If you apply that to the iraqis, I feel sorry for you americans (and ofcourse us australians who had to join you on this unjust war in iraq) since "nothing is ever going to be forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten" from the iraqi perspective. Remembers, if you are so ready to bear a grudge and dish out terror to others, be prepared to be on the receiving end too.
The majority of Americans do not want to be in Iraq. You can rest assured that we are willing to accept our knocks and blows with this, we do have the resolve to finish the job and we will, is your country ready, Uncle Kim is more a threat to you than he is to us right now.
If you apply that to the iraqis, I feel sorry for you americans (and ofcourse us australians who had to join you on this unjust war in iraq) since "nothing is ever going to be forgotten nor will it ever be forgotten" from the iraqi perspective. Remembers, if you are so ready to bear a grudge and dish out terror to others, be prepared to be on the receiving end too.
The majority of Americans do not want to be in Iraq. You can rest assured that we are willing to accept our knocks and blows with this, we do have the resolve to finish the job and we will, is your country ready, Uncle Kim is more a threat to you than he is to us right now.
The North Korean people are a oppressed people who under the control of a very intellegent tyrant, the Chineese have known this and yet they will not intervene, do they not want to show the world on how civil they can be a go for the good of all mankind, yea right. Man what an age, just to think that the world views America as a evil empire who is hell bent in ruling the world, just remember this when the wolf is sitting at your back door, who is going to come to your aide and shed blood for you, the United States!swerve said:
When i'm right, i'm right...anyone seen this before, say homer and an astroid?
I'm, scared 2
NORK Nuclear Test: It's A Dud
HA HA HA HA.
I -- Jeffrey Lewis, crossposting from Arms Control Wonk -- love the US Geological Survey.
They've published lat/long (41.294 N, 129.134 E) and Mb estimates (4.2) for the North Korean test.
There is lots of data floating around: The CTBTO called it 4.0; The South Koreans report 3.58-3.7.
crap.gifYou're thinking, 3.6, 4.2, in that neighborhood. Seismic scales, like the Richter, are logarithmic, so that neighborhood can be pretty big.
But even at 4.2, the test was probablya dud.
Estimating the yield is tricky business, because it depends on the geology of the test site. The South Koreans called the yield half a kiloton (550 tons), which is more or less -- a factor of two -- consistent with the relationship for tests in that yield range at the Soviet Shagan test site:
Mb = 4.262 + .973LogW
Where Mb is the magnitude of the body wave, and W is the yield.
3.58-3.7 gives you a couple hundred tons (not kilotons), which is pretty close in this business unless you're really math positive. The same equation, given the US estimate of 4.2, yields (pun intended) around a kiloton.
A plutonium device should produce a yield in the range of the 20 kilotons, like the one we dropped on Nagasaki. No one has ever dudded their first test of a simple fission device. North Korean nuclear scientists are now officially the worst ever.
Of course, I want to see what the US IC says. If/when the test vents, we could have some radionuclide data -- maybe in the next 72 hours or so.
But, from the initial data, I'd say someone with no workable nuclear weapons (Kim Jong Il, I am looking at you) should be crapping his pants right now.
First the missile, then the bomb. Got anything else you wanna try out there, chief?
http://www.defensetech.org/
I'm, scared 2
NORK Nuclear Test: It's A Dud
HA HA HA HA.
I -- Jeffrey Lewis, crossposting from Arms Control Wonk -- love the US Geological Survey.
They've published lat/long (41.294 N, 129.134 E) and Mb estimates (4.2) for the North Korean test.
There is lots of data floating around: The CTBTO called it 4.0; The South Koreans report 3.58-3.7.
crap.gifYou're thinking, 3.6, 4.2, in that neighborhood. Seismic scales, like the Richter, are logarithmic, so that neighborhood can be pretty big.
But even at 4.2, the test was probablya dud.
Estimating the yield is tricky business, because it depends on the geology of the test site. The South Koreans called the yield half a kiloton (550 tons), which is more or less -- a factor of two -- consistent with the relationship for tests in that yield range at the Soviet Shagan test site:
Mb = 4.262 + .973LogW
Where Mb is the magnitude of the body wave, and W is the yield.
3.58-3.7 gives you a couple hundred tons (not kilotons), which is pretty close in this business unless you're really math positive. The same equation, given the US estimate of 4.2, yields (pun intended) around a kiloton.
A plutonium device should produce a yield in the range of the 20 kilotons, like the one we dropped on Nagasaki. No one has ever dudded their first test of a simple fission device. North Korean nuclear scientists are now officially the worst ever.
Of course, I want to see what the US IC says. If/when the test vents, we could have some radionuclide data -- maybe in the next 72 hours or so.
But, from the initial data, I'd say someone with no workable nuclear weapons (Kim Jong Il, I am looking at you) should be crapping his pants right now.
First the missile, then the bomb. Got anything else you wanna try out there, chief?
http://www.defensetech.org/
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
icelord said:
Agreed. But what do you do, if you have a large nuke arsenal, thats been the cornerstone of world peice for the last 50 years (f**ked up i know), that you have been reducing dramaticly for the last 20yrs, I think its dropped from 30/40 000 to about 9000, and nations like Iran and NK are developing nukes? Throw your own arsenal away, (putting you at a massive strategic dissadvantage re Russia, should that relationship turn cold again), or take action and be called a hypocrite? look i can see why nations like NK could feel at a massive dissadvantage and want some deterrent, espiecally with the amount of firepower Gorgie could unleash if he ever pushed his little red button. But i'll have to say tuff s**t, cus we all need to be working on reducing weapon numbers, and realisticly that has to happen in a phased manner for the superpowers, and allowing smaller nations to go willy nilly building nukes cus the Yanks have got em' is iresponsible and a bit stupid if you ask me. :unknown