abramsteve
New Member
They better not be meant as insults, cause thats rediculous. I can think of better ones!Also, what's with the random capitalisation of Aussie? Random personal quirk or are we meant to be insulted in some way?
Why Are we sinking HMAS Canberra
- Thread starter alexsa
- Start date
You are either being deliberately obtuse or really are ignorant of the decision making process involving the Invincible.Boomer1961 said:
Invincible came off the availability list due to Galtieris little brain snap... up until then, the UK was more than willing to sell off the vessel. It was a UK decision - it had nothing to do with a Labor Govt courting a welfare vote.
Hermes was never ever in the running due to its age. It was offered as compensation for the UK withdrawal of Invincible - but it never had a chance due to the amount of logsitics disconnection it would have caused against other fleet requirements.
I'm unsure as to whether you are being disrespectful or trying to be funny.Boomer1961 said:
but, there is no shortage of dead bodies on the banned list - and that includes aussies, kiwis and americans. there are no "pandas" in this web site. (panda is a military term that refers to anyone whp qualifies as a "protected species" )
this is an international forum, there may well be more visible aussies posting - but the membership list is decidedly weighted towards other nationalities.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Are you referring to the RAN Kanimbla LPA or the Newport LST? I'm curious about that since there is the upcoming LHD.
As for the rest... When referencing fleet strength, Boomer1961, are you talking about ships available for deployment, or total fleet strength? If you're talking about ships available, from what I remember, the USN only has about 30% availability for deployment at any one time. Ships are either already deployed, returning from deployment or in dock.
As for the future of the RAN, I have to say it looks fairly decent. The Anzac frigates are scheduled to get fitted with a phased radar array starting 2009. And the Hobart AWD, with SPY-1(D?) is scheduled to enter service in 2013. Of course, it would be nice to have a few more vessels, but short of an outright invasion should be able to handle most threats. And an invasion would activate the ANZUS treaty...
Lastly, keep in mind what the remaining Adelaide FFGs will be doing once they have undergone their upgrade & mod program. Basically they are to provide an interim AAD capability until the AWD ships start commissioning.
-Cheers
ref was re the kanimblas. reports coming back indicate that the (US) specwarrier guys also loved them as they were ideal as an ops base due to facilities and flexibility.Todjaeger said:
the allegoricals are that the kanimbla/manoora have been regarded as the most flexible flag ship in the task force. TF Cmdrs's have often transferred C&C to them when they've been in theatre.
contedicavour
New Member
From good old europe (the continental part, not the UK ) all that I can say is that Australia's fleet is one of the very rare ones that are expanding, and expanding a lot !!
Even keeping ship numbers flat, while each new ship is a lot more capable and expensive than the ones being replaced, is already an outstanding result ! Look at the UK : in 10 years they will have moved from 12 Type 42 DDGs to 6 Type 45 DDGs. Australia will have replaced (late, yes, but still...) 3 obsolete CF Adams DDGs with 3 much bigger Aegis DDGs. May be the 3 DDGs will end up replacing also some of the OHPs. Ok, still, your escort force isn't going down from 32 (RN a few years ago) to 19 (if the Type 22 Batch 3 aren't replaced).
I could go on for ages... the 6 Collins replacing the same number of Oberons, while the UK goes down from 12 SSN and 4 Upholders of the early '90s to 8 SSNs...
So I would say to be happy with what you have and stop complaining
cheers folks
) all that I can say is that Australia's fleet is one of the very rare ones that are expanding, and expanding a lot !!Even keeping ship numbers flat, while each new ship is a lot more capable and expensive than the ones being replaced, is already an outstanding result ! Look at the UK : in 10 years they will have moved from 12 Type 42 DDGs to 6 Type 45 DDGs. Australia will have replaced (late, yes, but still...) 3 obsolete CF Adams DDGs with 3 much bigger Aegis DDGs. May be the 3 DDGs will end up replacing also some of the OHPs. Ok, still, your escort force isn't going down from 32 (RN a few years ago) to 19 (if the Type 22 Batch 3 aren't replaced).
I could go on for ages... the 6 Collins replacing the same number of Oberons, while the UK goes down from 12 SSN and 4 Upholders of the early '90s to 8 SSNs...
So I would say to be happy with what you have and stop complaining
cheers folks
Gday mate,
Just wondering where you gained these figures from? At the moment, of the 8 Anzacs, 6 are at sea with 2 in IMAV at 2 weeks notice to sail. Of the 5 FFG's still in commission, 4 are at sea with only Melbourne alongside as she is currently undergoing the FFG-UP.
Cheers
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
How's Sydney going with her trials? Is she anywhere near being close to released for "operational service"?
Reckon the Government might be looking to send her to the North Pacific if she is. The threat there seems as if Sydney were upgraded for that purpose alone...
Gday AD,
I exercised with her off WA in June. Her systems are a vast improvement compared to the old girl Adelaide I am on.
Sydney is to undergo her workup in Nov & I would expect her to be ready for operational service in mid-Jan next year. From what I have heard of her recent exercise in TASMANEX, she exceeded most expectations in regards AAW & ASW.
Cheers
Is it my turn for a rebutle yet? No...well i'll do one anyway
Ok, first up, NO NO NO NO. and perhaps, but no
First up, lets start with this site for your research
http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/
It has a few good points, such as the current upgrades for the Adelaide to extend its lifespan to meet the replacements, 3 AWD plus the possibility of a fourth.
Our LPAs were, an honest rip off, theres no denying that, what i will deny is that they are shite, since repairs and mods the Kanimbla and Manoora have become the most worked ships in the fleet, going from timor Sea to Gulf, they have served well and will be missed.
When i say they will be missed it is because there is to be a replacement of the Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk, with two LHD, with the tenders offering the French Mistral and Navantia offering the BPE, either will become a stable of the RAN and will work till the day its replaced.
and whats more, they are still writing checks for whatever the Air Marshal asks for...good ol Angus
You criticise our Countries buying priorities but i must ask,have the USN not cut their spending on the Littorals and their orders, and the San antonios, And don't get me started on the Nuke Submarines. The british have done the same for their type 45s, cutting the order, and the CVF is in trouble, hell much of Europe isn't even going out to buy anything.
Our patrol boats are 2nd to none, hell last i heard, your Coast guard was using Vintage ships that belong in a museum( no offence to US and all) We have a capable boat that has proven itself since its test run, when it hauled 4 illegal fishing boats, and that was day 1.
Our Collins class started as a laughing stock, and when in the pacific for an excercise, HMAS Rankin rocked up sounding like a fingernail accross a blackboard, only to dissapear into the sunset, and wipe out its objective without any trouble( see Tv series 'submarines' ABC)
The way i see it, which is pretty narrow mind you Australia and our kiwi bros are the only ones really expanding their navies in any solid numbers.
and another thing, are you talking about China or India? Cause well, we are chinas third largest trade partner, and sell alot of raw materials to keep the Chinese economy going, so need for any dispute, plus we love their Honey Chicken:mrgreen:
As for India, HA!, we share a common passion you would not be able to comprehend, the destruction of Flintoff and his merry band of white skinned drunken yobos:drunk1 ...Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!...only 2 more months!
Ok, first up, NO NO NO NO. and perhaps, but no
First up, lets start with this site for your research
http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/
It has a few good points, such as the current upgrades for the Adelaide to extend its lifespan to meet the replacements, 3 AWD plus the possibility of a fourth.
Our LPAs were, an honest rip off, theres no denying that, what i will deny is that they are shite, since repairs and mods the Kanimbla and Manoora have become the most worked ships in the fleet, going from timor Sea to Gulf, they have served well and will be missed.
When i say they will be missed it is because there is to be a replacement of the Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk, with two LHD, with the tenders offering the French Mistral and Navantia offering the BPE, either will become a stable of the RAN and will work till the day its replaced.
Heres your mistake, see, a Liberal Government is currently in charge( iknow, the rules) and they have begun the largest spending in defence ever seen in peacetime(or war, depending on ur point of view). Billions is thrown at purchasing C-17s, AWDs, Abrahms and alike, its like chrismas and the little boy who missed out for years gets it all at once
and whats more, they are still writing checks for whatever the Air Marshal asks for...good ol Angus You criticise our Countries buying priorities but i must ask,have the USN not cut their spending on the Littorals and their orders, and the San antonios, And don't get me started on the Nuke Submarines. The british have done the same for their type 45s, cutting the order, and the CVF is in trouble, hell much of Europe isn't even going out to buy anything.
Our patrol boats are 2nd to none, hell last i heard, your Coast guard was using Vintage ships that belong in a museum( no offence to US and all) We have a capable boat that has proven itself since its test run, when it hauled 4 illegal fishing boats, and that was day 1.
Our Collins class started as a laughing stock, and when in the pacific for an excercise, HMAS Rankin rocked up sounding like a fingernail accross a blackboard, only to dissapear into the sunset, and wipe out its objective without any trouble( see Tv series 'submarines' ABC)
The way i see it, which is pretty narrow mind you
Australia and our kiwi bros are the only ones really expanding their navies in any solid numbers. We are purchasing the F-35, you do realise that Aus is the only one( and i do mean that) that has stated publicly we have no concerns and will be purchasing them when they are ready to go. $300 million is a bit of mullah, and we didn't put that much in for nothing.
and another thing, are you talking about China or India? Cause well, we are chinas third largest trade partner, and sell alot of raw materials to keep the Chinese economy going, so need for any dispute, plus we love their Honey Chicken:mrgreen:
As for India, HA!, we share a common passion you would not be able to comprehend, the destruction of Flintoff and his merry band of white skinned drunken yobos:drunk1 ...Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!...only 2 more months!
Look YANky, this is a site for everyone, from our good mates conte from italy, to todds and toby from US and swerve from motherland and yes there are aussies on here, because we are very proud of our military and like to know whats going on, and the reason that a lot of aussies will reply is because we don't like inaccurate statements, thats the point of a forum, discussions and ideas as well as opinions to be shared, in the hope of correcting any factual errors...
lol @ icelord. Fire up mate! nfloorl:
The RAN is definitely heading in the right direction, finally. It's just it takes a long time to build a navy and the Howard government has had a good 15 years of neglect to catch up on.
The Anzacs were good patrol frigates but nearly useless combat ships. Replacing Sea Hawks with Sea Sprites was a serious mistake, even if the Sea Sprites worked perfectly they still aren't a good replacement for a Sea Hawk.
The destroyers and carrier were retired with no replacements, the FFGs needed an upgrade, the patrol boats still equipped with Bofors guns, the LPAs were infamous as 'rust buckets' and the Collins, well we all know about them.
And now we have the Anzacs being turned into very good combat ships by fitting most of the "for but not with" options, although the Sea Sprites are still crap. New AWD destroyers are coming on line, the FFGs upgraded in the interim, new Armidale-class patrol boats which are light years ahead of the old Fremantles. The LPAs are good ships, the LHDS are on the horizon and the Collins regularly 'sink' the cream of the USN on exercises.
This at a time when, as has been said, most world navies are in post-Cold War decline. The RAN has a long way to go but it's definitely heading in the right direction. At last. As is the Army.
nfloorl: The RAN is definitely heading in the right direction, finally. It's just it takes a long time to build a navy and the Howard government has had a good 15 years of neglect to catch up on.
The Anzacs were good patrol frigates but nearly useless combat ships. Replacing Sea Hawks with Sea Sprites was a serious mistake, even if the Sea Sprites worked perfectly they still aren't a good replacement for a Sea Hawk.
The destroyers and carrier were retired with no replacements, the FFGs needed an upgrade, the patrol boats still equipped with Bofors guns, the LPAs were infamous as 'rust buckets' and the Collins, well we all know about them.
And now we have the Anzacs being turned into very good combat ships by fitting most of the "for but not with" options, although the Sea Sprites are still crap. New AWD destroyers are coming on line, the FFGs upgraded in the interim, new Armidale-class patrol boats which are light years ahead of the old Fremantles. The LPAs are good ships, the LHDS are on the horizon and the Collins regularly 'sink' the cream of the USN on exercises.
This at a time when, as has been said, most world navies are in post-Cold War decline. The RAN has a long way to go but it's definitely heading in the right direction. At last. As is the Army.
abramsteve
New Member
Well said Icelord!
A question bout the Sydney: How many more years service life has she got left?
Oh and bout the two months, can't wait to put the poms back in their place. And god help em if they dont let us keep the Ahes here this time!
A question bout the Sydney: How many more years service life has she got left?
Oh and bout the two months, can't wait to put the poms back in their place. And god help em if they dont let us keep the Ahes here this time!
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Very interesting, thanks for that. Btw I thought you sailed on an ANZAC class boat?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #54
I have been away for a while and have been interested to see how this thread has developed. It is too late for Canberra as she has been stripped but there would appear to be better scope to dispose of Adelaide (albeit she is older) more effectively. Comparitively the hulls are not that old, but systems and weapons cerainly are an issue.
As a completely left field suggestion these vessels (read Adelaide only now) could have been offered to the Kiwi's given both ANZAC's are to be upgraded (hence out of operation) further reducing thier frigate force. Even if the GWS13 was removed and the vessel left with the 76mm and CIWS it still has an effective helo capability that would have provided them with a gap filler as a patrol frigate.
Just seems a bit of a rush to dispose of them.
As a completely left field suggestion these vessels (read Adelaide only now) could have been offered to the Kiwi's given both ANZAC's are to be upgraded (hence out of operation) further reducing thier frigate force. Even if the GWS13 was removed and the vessel left with the 76mm and CIWS it still has an effective helo capability that would have provided them with a gap filler as a patrol frigate.
Just seems a bit of a rush to dispose of them.
contedicavour
New Member
I like the idea of helping out NZ by providing them with a 3rd FFG for a fraction of the cost of a new build one. Compared with the age of the last Leanders just before they were decommissioned, the Adelaide is a relatively youthful vessel !
cheers
The current government of New Zealand don't want a third frigate. They don't have the personnel to man her. The seven Project Protector patrol ships and boats will consume the entire crew of a third frigate.
About the only similar parts will be the Phalanx CIWS, LM2500 gas turbines, torpedo tubes, and possibly the chaff launchers. Everything else would be another spare parts logistics problem.
A nearby country that could use newer used ships is Indonesia.
About the only similar parts will be the Phalanx CIWS, LM2500 gas turbines, torpedo tubes, and possibly the chaff launchers. Everything else would be another spare parts logistics problem.
A nearby country that could use newer used ships is Indonesia.
contedicavour
New Member
Hmm a shame that NZ can't recuit some more personnel to man the Adelaide. Regarding Indonesia, I really don't see Australia handing over a FFG to that particular neighbour, considering the recent past and the order for Russian SSKs with Klub-S cruise missiles...
cheers
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #58
If it ia going to be a logsitics problem for NZ who have a close realtionship with Asutralia and could tap into maintenace arrangements here, it will a real problem for indonesia.
My suggestion was using the ship as a gap filler to allow the ANZAC's to be taken out of service (one at a time) to be upgraded.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #60
Adelaide will not been upgraded (aka HMAS Sydney), but they would certainly need to learn to drive the thing.