New Brit aircraft carrier names

[swerve]

Hold on that article has the CVF's at 3 Billion pounds, yet the Upgrade of 12 nimrods aircraft to MR4 is costing 3.5 Billion pounds? If this is correct what a total screw up to put it politely, shows the priorities of the Gov and the massive mess, what a joke, if its bad reporting then fine, won't dont they screw the Nimrod upgrade order and get 12 P-8's I'm sure that wouldn't come in more than 1.5 Billion Pound for 12 would it???

It's not really an upgrade. That's another one of those political things, I think. New engines, all new systems, new wings. Even a lot of the supposedly old bits have had to be re-worked to make them fit. In reality, there's very little left of the old airframes, & it would have been cheaper to have made 'em all from scratch. A lot of the cost increases have been due to delays caused by realising the old airframe sections they were going to have to to fit together with new CAM precision-engineered parts were decidedly non-standard .

The big money was on development, & has been spent. The marginal cost of each extra one, now that's been sorted out, isn't too bad - £1.1 billion to build 9, & bring the 3 development aircraft to production standard. And they have various advantages over the P-8. A pity they're not going to make more.

BTW, there was no P-8 when the decision to develop MRA4 was taken, so we couldn't have bought it. What we could have done was cancel the MRA4 after we'd spent most of the development money, & buy the P-8 off the drawing board, hoping the USA didn't cancel it, as they did the P-7, & accepting a 5 year delay.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Here's the most recent news I had on CVF and why I'm feeling quite positive - The Times has had negative reports in the past when things were stalled.

Carrier project to go for final approval this month

The MoD is expected to go to “main gate” with the project — the final stage in commissioning the ships — around December.

 

[RubiconNZ]

It's not really an upgrade. That's another one of those political things, I think. New engines, all new systems, new wings. Even a lot of the supposedly old bits have had to be re-worked to make them fit. In reality, there's very little left of the old airframes, & it would have been cheaper to have made 'em all from scratch. A lot of the cost increases have been due to delays caused by realising the old airframe sections they were going to have to to fit together with new CAM precision-engineered parts were decidedly non-standard .

The big money was on development, & has been spent. The marginal cost of each extra one, now that's been sorted out, isn't too bad - £1.1 billion pounds to build 9, & bring the 3 development aircraft to production standard. And they have various advantages over the P-8. A pity they're not going to make more.

BTW, there was no P-8 when the decision to develop MRA4 was taken, so we couldn't have bought it. What we could have done was cancel the MRA4 after we'd spent most of the development money, & buy the P-8 off the drawing board, hoping the USA didn't cancel it, as they did the P-7, & accepting a 5 year delay.

Fair Call, I probably got a bit agro, I'm a fan of a big navy, and the cuts the RN have had to endure irk me, 1.1 Billion is quite a decent cost puts it perspective, and certainly teaches me to listen to one article Fair point with the P8 too.

2012 is going to big year for Navies with luck, RN Carrier, QE, USN CVN71,DDG 1000 in trials IOC for the P8 and FRP, RAN AWD and Amphip #1's, and broad introduction of the JSF, Any news on additional Astutes? As the extras would be due about then...

 

[Sea Toby]

New commerical Boeing 737s run in the neighborhood of US $80 million each, therefore I would suspect a militarized version for ASW would cost twice as much. Remember New Zealand balked at their ASW Orion upgrade for 6 Orions at NZ$ 350 million, and settled for a surface Orion upgrade at NZ$ 160 million. I would guess a P-8 with all up to date modern sensors would run US$ 160 million each. Multiply that by 12, my math totals this to US$ 1.92 billion. And I maybe understating the cost of a P-8. I'm guessing wildly.

So we'll know by the end of the month. I knew the order had to be coming soon if they wanted delivery of both before 2015.

 

[LancerMc]

I agree with some of the other posters they should be named after famous admirals at least. The Prince of Wales had a troubled past during WW2, with a mauling by the Bismark and then being sunk by the Japanese. I understand the tradition to name the other ship the Queen Elizabeth, but there are going to be a lot of stupid people out there think were talking about the Cunard liner.

I think some the ideas like Nelson and Drake are excellent, and should also include Churchill. Myself being a history buff, I think may name one of the carriers Swordfish for the brave pilots of HMS Victorious who disabled the Bismarck.

 

[Grand Danois]

Here's the most recent news I had on CVF and why I'm feeling quite positive - The Times has had negative reports in the past when things were stalled.

Carrier project to go for final approval this month

Take a look at post # 13.

:

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Take a look at post # 13.

Nothing wrong with restating good news.

 

[Grand Danois]

Nothing wrong with restating good news.

And the best would be their approval.

 

[contedicavour]

Good news indeed... though it seems to me a bit strange to finalize design before the final word is said on F35B procurement for the RN & RAF. For instance, in the remote possibility that at the end a different bird were selected (Rafale, F18E/F, or even a CTOL F35) the design would have to be radically modified...
Anyway, lock in the money in the defence budget, and then you'll see

cheers

 

[harryriedl]

Good news indeed... though it seems to me a bit strange to finalize design before the final word is said on F35B procurement for the RN & RAF. For instance, in the remote possibility that at the end a different bird were selected (Rafale, F18E/F, or even a CTOL F35) the design would have to be radically modified...
Anyway, lock in the money in the defence budget, and then you'll see

cheers

but it isn't dependen't on the f35 it can use any carrirer capable plane so they can just get on with it

 

[RubiconNZ]

Good news indeed... though it seems to me a bit strange to finalize design before the final word is said on F35B procurement for the RN & RAF. For instance, in the remote possibility that at the end a different bird were selected (Rafale, F18E/F, or even a CTOL F35) the design would have to be radically modified...
Anyway, lock in the money in the defence budget, and then you'll see

cheers

Would it though? everything I have read has said the CVF's have the specs and space for catapults, not to make light work of installing catapults, but correct me if my understanding is incorrect?

 

[Sea Toby]

If they decide the JSFs are too expensive, they would only need to remark the aircraft carrier flight deck for STOL aircraft along with installing the catapults. I'm sure the expense of adding catapults and arrester wires would be balanced out by buying cheaper aircraft.

The British are planning to use these carriers for 50 years, and have designed the carriers with STOL in mind. No one knows what the future naval aircraft will be in 30 years to replace the planned JSFs.

 

[contedicavour]

Ok if the carriers can easily be converted to operate CTOL aircrafts by adding catapults, then I have no further objections, long live the Queen Elizabeth class carriers

cheers

 

[mark22w]

The names for the RN carriers were announced back in 2004.

As noted already there is a tradition to name the first capital ship of a monarchs reign after the monarch and this should have been CVA-01 before it was cancelled in ’66. I suggest with the ‘Invincible’ class starting life as ‘helicopter command cruisers’, then ‘through deck command cruisers’ – any suggestion they were aircraft carriers or capital ships in the traditional sense was downplayed.

HMS Queen Elizabeth is an obvious choice though IMO it would have been great to see Eagle and Hermes return to the fleet. That the 2012 commissioning will be Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee makes it all the more attractive. Sadly, the likelihood this will align is looking less certain.

The new carriers have a 50 year life expectancy so the second carrier name is of particular interest. Assuming Prince Charles will be King during this time the title of Prince of Wales passes to his eldest son, who becomes second in line. Affirmation of where the RN’s loyalties lie.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

That the 2012 commissioning will be Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee makes it all the more attractive. Sadly, the likelihood this will align is looking less certain.

Depends when they start cutting steel. If we get main gate approval at the end of the year then that should allow things to start moving so that date could be met.

Assuming Prince Charles will be King during this time the title of Prince of Wales passes to his eldest son, who becomes second in line. Affirmation of where the RN’s loyalties lie.

Erm, I don't think it proves anything of the sort. Remember there have been other "Prince of Wales" ships in the RN - you don't call them "HMS X, Prince of Wales".

 

[mark22w]

I hope you are right with 2012 but I think it unlikely.

I think you missed the point on the 'royal' connection...but hey.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

I hope you are right with 2012 but I think it unlikely.

If there is political will to make it happen (i.e. the dithering stops) it is achievable, so long as the construction moves at a reasonable pace. Having it commissioned in time might be tricky, but completing construction would be possible.

I think you missed the point on the 'royal' connection...

Well maybe you didn't realise, but you were implying something else.

 

[contedicavour]

Well IMHO what really matters is having the 1st carrier ready at the same time as the first F35s. Having the ship ready before would be less useful...

cheers

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Well IMHO what really matters is having the 1st carrier ready at the same time as the first F35s. Having the ship ready before would be less useful.

Unless there is a massive problem with the JSF, I doubt the carriers will be early.

 

[philbob]

I would be all for R08 HMS VICTORY