Middle East Defence & Security

Said failed diplomacy largely kept the world away from self destruction and WW3 during the Cold War, and your laughable professors (Waltz, Mearsheimer) actually served in the military.

Most of us, who have served (myself included) would never willingly see war as a solution and human lives as garbage.

But then again @Beltrami2005, who himself have probably not served a day in the underfunded Spanish armed forces has the solution that we all missed, which is essentially, kill them all.
I dont want talk down your service but it was people like Mearsheimer whose only contribution was to manage decline. Supremacy can only be achieved through power. War in itself is not the goal but must be always be on the table.

I give you a very good example: Gaza.

Before Octobre 7th 2023 evry day hunerdeds of rockets were shot from Gaza towards Israel. This is now reduced to near zero, simply because Gaza ceased to exist as a thing. This wasnt achieved through negotiations.

Iran is a destabilizing factor in the region and must be removed as destabilizing factor. A tumor that is allowed to fester kills the entire body.

And yes, i have not served in military but i come from a family that has a military history spanning 200 years. My great grandfather did not negotiate with Rojos who started building forces around our hometown.

The iranian regime is desperate and weak, now is the time to crush it once and for all. You have two factions, the anti religious iranians who dance in the streets and the religious fanatics. Obviousl anti regime forces are deeply embedded inside the regime, so much, that they allow strikes that take out the top leadership.

Wonder if there are trust issues now?

Btw now the iranian navy is obliterated. Since USA and Israel have full air supremacy evry single asset can be taken out one by one

644335928_1460079775701525_580109891423703740_n.jpg
 
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uguduwa

New Member
He was one of the most rampant anti western clowns of them all. By removing him, a potential radical replacement was removed from the table.
Was he though? He was kicked out because has too many conflicts with the inner circle of the regime and he was last famous for tweets about rappers and NBA.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
A dead fanatic is better than a live one. The problem is the replacement, an unknown and possibly worse. The two outcomes of this $hitshow are more of the same or civil war. Both results will continue the ME unrest.
 
A dead fanatic is better than a live one. The problem is the replacement, an unknown and possibly worse. The two outcomes of this $hitshow are more of the same or civil war. Both results will continue the ME unrest.
I agree, its good to erase the entire leadership and evry potential radical replacement. In that regard the ayatollahs son should be next. But we hear there are still massive explosions going on in Tehran so i assume US and Israel work on that.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
A dead fanatic is better than a live one. The problem is the replacement, an unknown and possibly worse. The two outcomes of this $hitshow are more of the same or civil war. Both results will continue the ME unrest.
One issue was that he was both old and a fanatic. He had no incentive to negotiate to save his own life because a) he knew he likely didn't have many years to live and b) sincerely believed he would go to Heaven if he was killed.

It's likely whoever replaces him will be significantly younger and therefore more likely to want to go on living a few decades more, so maybe is/are open to some sort of compromise down the road. "Maybe" doing some heavy lifting, but it's possible.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sure they could do that, if they want to die. What we see so far look uncoordinated and chaotic. Irans response was weak. News come in that the Ayatollah is most likely dead. If true, thats great news and offers the Venezuela solution, there might be reasonable elements in the regime who want live.

Just confirmed..Chameinei has croaked out

Chameinei body found
Apparently, following your logic, they want to die. Because they're already hitting tankers. And there are already impacts on the traffic through the strait.


Yes

Ayatollah is dead, defense minister is dead, leader of the army is dead.

Here is the list:

1. Aziz Nasirzadeh, Minister of Defence and Armed Forces Logistics

Nasirzadeh was a key figure in Tehran's defence establishment.

2. Mohammad Shirazi, Chief of Military Bureau of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei

He was eliminated in the attack. He has been with the Bureau since 1989, reported the Times Of Israel.

As per the IDF, Shirazi was responsible for “the liaison between the senior commanders of the armed forces and the leader, and was a central figure in the top ranks of the Iranian terror regime, the Times of Israel report added.

3. Ali Samkhani, Supreme Leader's Advisor for Security Affairs and Secretary of the Defense Council

He was a former IRGC Navy chief and Iranian army chief. He was also among the top advisers to Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

4. Hossein Jabal Amelian, Chairman of the SPND

Hossein Jabal-Amelian, as per IDF, was responsible for “developing advanced technologies and weapons for the regime” and advanced “projects for years in the fields of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons,” reported

5. Mohammad Pakpour, Chief of the IRGC

Mohammad Pakpour was responsible for missile and drone attacks on Israel, supporting Iran's proxy groups, and “effectively commanded the violent suppression of Iranian protesters during the internal protests last month,” the report added.

6. Reza Mozafari-Nia, former chairman of SPND

Reza Mozafari-Nia “advanced efforts to develop nuclear weapons,” reported The Times of Israel.

7. Salah Asadi, Head of Intelligence of Khatem Alanbieh Command

He was a senior intelligence officer of Iran's armed forces' general staff.

The grand price of course is the unsupreme leader.
This is not the "entire leadership". This covers some of their top leadership. Chains of succession are quite long. Moreover the reaction on the ground seems to be quite different from what you anticipated. Instead of anti-regime sentiment, there are crows chanting "death to America" in the streets, and there are protests in neighboring countries that include attempts to enter US embassies. The population isn't rising up against the Iranian government, at least at this point. I suspecting bombing that girls' school didn't help.


As for the counter strikes, they are a shadow of what happened last June.

  • Degraded Retaliation: The rate and scale of Iran's recent missile barrages against Israel suggest that efforts to destroy launch pads and stockpiles are having an effect. Iran is reportedly struggling to coordinate large-scale salvos, firing only 2–4 missiles per barrage in some areas.
You've simply restated your claims, you haven't provided any actual comparison. I've not seen any good data, but it seems to me that the current response from Iran is comparable, if not more robust, than what they did last time. I don't see any obvious signs that their response capability is degraded. Moreover the geography of their strikes appears to be greater than last time, with US facilities all over the region getting hit.


I do think Iran has prepared poorly for this round of "pleasantries". They have front row seats to Russia's strike campaign in Ukraine, enabled by ideas borrowed from the Iranian playbook, with the use of cheap drones as long range strike platforms and missiles as high-end pieces of a combined strike package. But we're not seeing hundreds (it should really be thousands) of Shaheds being used to hit targets all over the place, raising serious questions. Some Shaheds are being used, and it appears that even relatively small quantities of them have the potential to penetrate hostile airspace and hit targets, but the volume isn't there. We do know there has been quite the air defense effort, including using fight jets to down inbounds, so perhaps what we're seeing get through is the result of that.

However stockpiles of munitions are limited, and the US and Israel aren't prepared to keep this campaign up for the next 6 months at this level of intensity. One potential move for Iran is to simply sit it out, and let US stockpiles of munitions decrease.

We should note, that Iran isnt a country able for coordinated tactics. Its a country where the capital is close to collapse because they cant manage water supply.

On such countries no ground troops are needed. You simply bomb their infrastructure into system failure.
And then what?

The effect could be seen on the prototype, once Nasrallah was killed by Israel and the infrastructure destroyed, Hezbollah was unable to be a threat.

Same will be in Iran. They have a limited number of launchpads and their high command is dead.
Much of their missile arsenal is in hardened underground facilities, and many of the TELs don't need dedicated launch pads. You can degrade their volley size by hunting TELs, which might be part of the current problems Iran faces, but I don't think the capability goes away completely.

The west pretty much rules the sky over Iran and can freely discard of any individuals that acts hostile. At some point evolution kicks in, the radicals die and the softer ones prevail. Iran is getting domesticated because the radicals get removed from the flock.
This does not appear to be true. The strikes appear to mostly be with stand-off munitions done from the edges and UAS inside Iran's airspace. And Iran has shot down at least some UAVs indicating they still have at least elements of GBAD active. I don't think Iran's IADS is rolled back to the point where the west can rule the skies of Iran. And timeline wise this wouldn't make sense. Operations like that tend to take weeks, not a couple of days, when we're talking about a whole country. This is where stockpile depletion becomes a concern. Last time hostilities ended long before air dominance could be achieved over Iran.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
He was one of the most rampant anti western clowns of them all. By removing him, a potential radical replacement was removed from the table.
What makes you so sure he was a deliberate target? He may very well have been next to someone more important, and was collateral damage.

Does anyone know why Ahmadinejad was killed?
Presumably because he was standing somewhere that got hit by a strike. The question is whether he was an intended target.
 
Apparently, following your logic, they want to die. Because they're already hitting tankers. And there are already impacts on the traffic through the strait.




This is not the "entire leadership". This covers some of their top leadership. Chains of succession are quite long. Moreover the reaction on the ground seems to be quite different from what you anticipated. Instead of anti-regime sentiment, there are crows chanting "death to America" in the streets, and there are protests in neighboring countries that include attempts to enter US embassies. The population isn't rising up against the Iranian government, at least at this point. I suspecting bombing that girls' school didn't help.




You've simply restated your claims, you haven't provided any actual comparison. I've not seen any good data, but it seems to me that the current response from Iran is comparable, if not more robust, than what they did last time. I don't see any obvious signs that their response capability is degraded. Moreover the geography of their strikes appears to be greater than last time, with US facilities all over the region getting hit.


I do think Iran has prepared poorly for this round of "pleasantries". They have front row seats to Russia's strike campaign in Ukraine, enabled by ideas borrowed from the Iranian playbook, with the use of cheap drones as long range strike platforms and missiles as high-end pieces of a combined strike package. But we're not seeing hundreds (it should really be thousands) of Shaheds being used to hit targets all over the place, raising serious questions. Some Shaheds are being used, and it appears that even relatively small quantities of them have the potential to penetrate hostile airspace and hit targets, but the volume isn't there. We do know there has been quite the air defense effort, including using fight jets to down inbounds, so perhaps what we're seeing get through is the result of that.

However stockpiles of munitions are limited, and the US and Israel aren't prepared to keep this campaign up for the next 6 months at this level of intensity. One potential move for Iran is to simply sit it out, and let US stockpiles of munitions decrease.



And then what?



Much of their missile arsenal is in hardened underground facilities, and many of the TELs don't need dedicated launch pads. You can degrade their volley size by hunting TELs, which might be part of the current problems Iran faces, but I don't think the capability goes away completely.



This does not appear to be true. The strikes appear to mostly be with stand-off munitions done from the edges and UAS inside Iran's airspace. And Iran has shot down at least some UAVs indicating they still have at least elements of GBAD active. I don't think Iran's IADS is rolled back to the point where the west can rule the skies of Iran. And timeline wise this wouldn't make sense. Operations like that tend to take weeks, not a couple of days, when we're talking about a whole country. This is where stockpile depletion becomes a concern. Last time hostilities ended long before air dominance could be achieved over Iran.
Thousands of iranians concentrating on pro regime demonstrations is a very good way to shrink the population of radicals.
 

uguduwa

New Member
What makes you so sure he was a deliberate target? He may very well have been next to someone more important, and was collateral damage.



Presumably because he was standing somewhere that got hit by a strike. The question is whether he was an intended target.
His house was destroyed. So unless someone was visiting him, he was the target.

Btw, is there a good place to get live updates and footage? Sino Cope Forum is a cesspool of shit that reading their comments hurt my brain.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
His house was destroyed. So unless someone was visiting him, he was the target.

Btw, is there a good place to get live updates and footage? Sino Cope Forum is a cesspool of shit that reading their comments hurt my brain.
Thanks for sharing, I didn't know that. Perhaps he was a target. Amk mapping and suriyak both shared some materials the rvv telegram did too as did colonelcassad. But of course everything comes with its own bias.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
A certain member keeps posting idiotic stuff. Imagine equating Hezbollah to Iran. Imagine talking about thinning radicals while constantly writing idiotic uninformed radical stuff, previously talking about others being enough or not enough catholic, comparing people to shit, straight up racist stuff, etc.


Anyway, I do not believe the reports about Ahmadinejad are yet final, in spite of Wikipedia writing in his date of departure to meet the virgins.

IMG_4111.jpeg

That ^ is the original source of news.

Humour:

IMG_4109.jpeg

Also:

IMG_4112.jpeg
 
Apparently, following your logic, they want to die. Because they're already hitting tankers. And there are already impacts on the traffic through the strait.




This is not the "entire leadership". This covers some of their top leadership. Chains of succession are quite long. Moreover the reaction on the ground seems to be quite different from what you anticipated. Instead of anti-regime sentiment, there are crows chanting "death to America" in the streets, and there are protests in neighboring countries that include attempts to enter US embassies. The population isn't rising up against the Iranian government, at least at this point. I suspecting bombing that girls' school didn't help.




You've simply restated your claims, you haven't provided any actual comparison. I've not seen any good data, but it seems to me that the current response from Iran is comparable, if not more robust, than what they did last time. I don't see any obvious signs that their response capability is degraded. Moreover the geography of their strikes appears to be greater than last time, with US facilities all over the region getting hit.


I do think Iran has prepared poorly for this round of "pleasantries". They have front row seats to Russia's strike campaign in Ukraine, enabled by ideas borrowed from the Iranian playbook, with the use of cheap drones as long range strike platforms and missiles as high-end pieces of a combined strike package. But we're not seeing hundreds (it should really be thousands) of Shaheds being used to hit targets all over the place, raising serious questions. Some Shaheds are being used, and it appears that even relatively small quantities of them have the potential to penetrate hostile airspace and hit targets, but the volume isn't there. We do know there has been quite the air defense effort, including using fight jets to down inbounds, so perhaps what we're seeing get through is the result of that.

However stockpiles of munitions are limited, and the US and Israel aren't prepared to keep this campaign up for the next 6 months at this level of intensity. One potential move for Iran is to simply sit it out, and let US stockpiles of munitions decrease.



And then what?



Much of their missile arsenal is in hardened underground facilities, and many of the TELs don't need dedicated launch pads. You can degrade their volley size by hunting TELs, which might be part of the current problems Iran faces, but I don't think the capability goes away completely.



This does not appear to be true. The strikes appear to mostly be with stand-off munitions done from the edges and UAS inside Iran's airspace. And Iran has shot down at least some UAVs indicating they still have at least elements of GBAD active. I don't think Iran's IADS is rolled back to the point where the west can rule the skies of Iran. And timeline wise this wouldn't make sense. Operations like that tend to take weeks, not a couple of days, when we're talking about a whole country. This is where stockpile depletion becomes a concern. Last time hostilities ended long before air dominance could be achieved over Iran.
US and Israel fly at day over Tehran and kill the leader plus 40 of the elite. That is the very definition of air dominance. You dont like it but that doesnt change the fact. What happens now was long overdue. Im no fan if endless talks.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
US and Israel fly at day over Tehran and kill the leader plus 40 of the elite. That is the very definition of air dominance. You dont like it but that doesnt change the fact. What happens now was long overdue. Im no fan if endless talks.
Sorry, do we have confirmation of western jets flying over Tehran? I haven't seen any... Or are you just making things up again because you don't understand how modern airforces operate? What's a stand-off munition... :D
 
Sorry, do we have confirmation of western jets flying over Tehran? I haven't seen any... Or are you just making things up again because you don't understand how modern airforces operate? What's a stand-off munition... :D
Yes we have. Iran has no functional air defense, only the russian and chinese junk. Thats why their unsupreme leader is dead and why we see massive explosions evrywhere in Iran. Btw yesterday 9 of their ships got sunk. I predict in 2 weeks Iran is free game for all its neighbours.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
US and Israel fly at day over Tehran and kill the leader plus 40 of the elite. That is the very definition of air dominance. You dont like it but that doesnt change the fact. What happens now was long overdue. Im no fan if endless talks.
No, questionable claims aside, that is NOT the "very definition of air dominance," despite whatever you might wish or even attempt to claim.

The following quote;
Air dominance implies sufficient force capacity and capability to reign supreme against the defined threat.
Is from page# 11 of an air dominance paper published in 2016 by the US DOD's Defense Science Board, a PDF of the paper can be found here.

That is about as definitive as one can get, though some of other Defence departments or ministries around the world might have their own specific definitions which might be slightly different.

To put it bluntly, what proof, actual, verifiable proof, do you have of various claims you keep making? At this point, between apparently making one's own definitions for recognized defence terminology, you seem keen on making and repeating numerous claims but provide anywhere from little at best to SFA in terms of proof.
 
No, questionable claims aside, that is NOT the "very definition of air dominance," despite whatever you might wish or even attempt to claim.

The following quote;


Is from page# 11 of an air dominance paper published in 2016 by the US DOD's Defense Science Board, a PDF of the paper can be found here.

That is about as definitive as one can get, though some of other Defence departments or ministries around the world might have their own specific definitions which might be slightly different.

To put it bluntly, what proof, actual, verifiable proof, do you have of various claims you keep making? At this point, between apparently making one's own definitions for recognized defence terminology, you seem keen on making and repeating numerous claims but provide anywhere from little at best to SFA in terms of proof.
My proof is, that Irans leader is dead and their launch pads get destroyed over their entire area.
 
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