Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[htbrst]

The NZ prime minister did get very up close and personal with the Wildcat last week as shown in this reel from the UK PM

30K views · 1.2K reactions | PM Keir Starmer and PM Christopher Luxon on a joint visit | The UK and New Zealand stand together to protect our national security, stepping up our defence spending and putting Ukraine in the strongest possible... | By Keir Starmer | Facebook

 

[ngatimozart]

The Bell 412 ASW won't make the final list because for the last ten years any military aviation platform being acquired has to:

• Currently be in service with one of our FVEY partners, and
• Be a mature platform.

The Bell 412 fails on the first requirement.

There are be four platforms that will be given serious consideration and two of these will make the final list because they meet the policy requirements.

• Airbus NH90 NFH
• Leonardo AW159 Wildcat
• LM Sikorsky MH-60R
• LM Sikorsky S-92M (CH-148) Cyclone

My pick for the two finalists are the Airbus NH90 NFH and the LM Sikorsky MH-60R. Both offer compatibility and commonality but in different aspects.

1. The NH90 NFH offers compatibility and commonality with an existing platform already in service with NZDF - the NH90TTH. This means that we don't need to stand up a separate maintenance system and logistics chain. It also reduces the NZDF to two helicopter types in its fleet instead of three, thus producing financial savings.
2. The MH-60R offers compatibility and commonality with the RAN and the USN, something that should not be undervalued. However it requires the maintenance of three different helicopter types in the NZDF fleet.

If the NH90 NFH is selected then it won't be able to operate off the OPVs, but that is really neither here nor there. We have the option of acquiring more AW109s to operate off the likes of the OPVs and there are marinised variants of it fitted with sea search radars and I/O turrets available.

Whilst shipboard UAVs are good they are not the be all to end all that some posters appear to think. They do have their weaknesses which are daily being clearly illustrated by both sides in the Russo-Ukrainian War. When used in the right circumstances they are good, however they are susceptible to EW, especially GPS spoofing and RF interference and denial.

 

[Pusser01]

The Bell 412 ASW won't make the final list because for the last ten years any military aviation platform being acquired has to:

• Currently be in service with one of our FVEY partners, and
• Be a mature platform.

The Bell 412 fails on the first requirement.

There are be four platforms that will be given serious consideration and two of these will make the final list because they meet the policy requirements.

• Airbus NH90 NFH
• Leonardo AW159 Wildcat
• LM Sikorsky MH-60R
• LM Sikorsky S-92M (CH-148) Cyclone

My pick for the two finalists are the Airbus NH90 NFH and the LM Sikorsky MH-60R. Both offer compatibility and commonality but in different aspects.

1. The NH90 NFH offers compatibility and commonality with an existing platform already in service with NZDF - the NH90TTH. This means that we don't need to stand up a separate maintenance system and logistics chain. It also reduces the NZDF to two helicopter types in its fleet instead of three, thus producing financial savings.
2. The MH-60R offers compatibility and commonality with the RAN and the USN, something that should not be undervalued. However it requires the maintenance of three different helicopter types in the NZDF fleet.

I seem to remember that the RAN conducted a test fit on an Anzac of the NH90 when it was in the running for the S-70B replacement. I recall it did fit but was tight, it would have limited the maintenance work that could be conducted at sea. Cheers[/list]

 

[Todjaeger]

I seem to remember that the RAN conducted a test fit on an Anzac of the NH90 when it was in the running for the S-70B replacement. I recall it did fit but was tight, it would have limited the maintenance work that could be conducted at sea. Cheers[/list]

I recall the same, including the specific colourful language to describe fitting an NH90-type helicopter into an ANZAC-class frigate hangar as, "not enough room to swing a bee's d*ck..."

My takeaway from that was that the NFH90 could not realistically operate from the ANZAC-class frigates which would mean that the only RNZN vessels which would be able to operate naval helicopters would be HMNZS's Canterbury and Aotearoa. Not sure if Aotearoa has an onboard hangar magazine or not, but IIRC Canterbury does not. This would drastically limit the potential usefulness of any embarked naval helicopters and at least with respect to Canterbury, only provide a useful capability if/when Canterbury is accompanied by frigates. The likely sensor, comms and CMS fitout aboard Canterbury likely does not support use of helicopter datalinks. Not that Canterbury could accomplish much whilst armed with M2 HMG's and a 25 mm M242 Bushmaster.

 

[StevoJH]

I recall the same, including the specific colourful language to describe fitting an NH90-type helicopter into an ANZAC-class frigate hangar as, "not enough room to swing a bee's d*ck..."

My takeaway from that was that the NFH90 could not realistically operate from the ANZAC-class frigates which would mean that the only RNZN vessels which would be able to operate naval helicopters would be HMNZS's Canterbury and Aotearoa. Not sure if Aotearoa has an onboard hangar magazine or not, but IIRC Canterbury does not. This would drastically limit the potential usefulness of any embarked naval helicopters and at least with respect to Canterbury, only provide a useful capability if/when Canterbury is accompanied by frigates. The likely sensor, comms and CMS fitout aboard Canterbury likely does not support use of helicopter datalinks. Not that Canterbury could accomplish much whilst armed with M2 HMG's and a 25 mm M242 Bushmaster.

NFH-90 doesn't make sense unless you are going to order new frigates pretty much right now.

And if you order new Frigates, that opens up many options, including the Rolls Royce of ASW Helicopters. The AW101 Merlin or CH-148 Cyclone.

 

[Todjaeger]

NFH-90 doesn't make sense unless you are going to order new frigates pretty much right now.

And if you order new Frigates, that opens up many options, including the Rolls Royce of ASW Helicopters. The AW101 Merlin or CH-148 Cyclone.

TBH I rather doubt that NZ could get new/replacement frigates into service fast enough, even if they ordered them today, to be worth going down the NFH90 path. The SH-2G(I) Super Seasprites really need to be replaced within the next few years which is what gov't intends. However, right now the replacement frigates are not expected into Kiwi service for about a decade which means there could easily be a five+ year gap where NZ is not able to operate naval helicopters as embarked naval helicopters due to lacking appropriate vessels to embark naval helicopters on.

 

[spoz]

From memory of the Australian assessment of the NFH vs the Romeo, admittedly quite a few years ago now (20!) the NFH have considerable differences from the TTH. Avionics, auto blade fold, extra stiffening, some engine mods. There would of course be some commonality, but possibly not as much as might be thought at first glance.