Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

Bob53

Well-Known Member
The process is to ensure that we spend money neither unwisely, nor in a manner unfair to those offering us goods and services. And the definition of “unwisely” has expanded every time there is any sort of problem, while “unfairly” expands each time an unsuccessful bidder complains. Both are often as the result of an ANAO audit, typically conducted for the most part by young, and admittedly smart, recent graduates with little real world experience. In turn the press picks up the story and paints those doing the procurement as a bunch of idiots. That is far from the truth, but it sticks and yet another regulation and review process is put in place to prevent it happening again. Result? Those doing procurements become increasingly risk averse, and that means they seek to eliminate every risk. And, apart from actually being impossible, that just adds unnecessary layers, and therefore time, to the process.

In times of emergency a rapid acquisition process gets around a lot of that. Down the track problems sometimes emerge, commonly with support packages, but the procurements are done fast. One I am aware of, for a reasonably complex weapons systems was done, and the weapon fielded, in about 10 weeks from the time the operational commander identified the need. And we did have problems later, but the warfighters got what they needed.

So the solution to the problem is to accept that perfect processes are impossible, and that issues will arise. Attempt to mitigate, but not eliminate, the risk; and don’t react with changed regulation and more levels of review to every report in the media that a risk has been realised.

But that doesn’t mean complex acquisitions can be done over night. The technical and commercial assessments of such things take time, and some governance of that process is essential. So deciding on a ship to buy is never going to happen over night; it normally going to take months just to read and assess all the submitted documentation.
Slightly OT but refers above…. I am seriously worried about the people going through university and working in the Canberra or public service bubble. I thought I was in the middle having voted both sides. My mates son and daughter in law. Both Melbourne Uni law graduates. Both went and worked in Canberra for 4 years. One now in vic Gov pursuing rezoning land tax claims. Their opinions are so far left it’s frightening.

They are of the opinion ( and apparently they have a lot of friends in the party they belong to )that farmers should not be allowed to pass on farm land to their family. Any time a farmer dies that land should be handed back to the government and if sold the money should be distributed the people in the local township.
These are incredibly smart kids…..around 29 I think ….both DUX of their schools brought up by middle of the road families.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Slightly OT but refers above…. I am seriously worried about the people going through university and working in the Canberra or public service bubble. I thought I was in the middle having voted both sides. My mates son and daughter in law. Both Melbourne Uni law graduates. Both went and worked in Canberra for 4 years. One now in vic Gov pursuing rezoning land tax claims. Their opinions are so far left it’s frightening.

They are of the opinion ( and apparently they have a lot of friends in the party they belong to )that farmers should not be allowed to pass on farm land to their family. Any time a farmer dies that land should be handed back to the government and if sold the money should be distributed the people in the local township.
These are incredibly smart kids…..around 29 I think ….both DUX of their schools brought up by middle of the road families.
I won't go off topic and comment on that. If they're the type of Uni graduates making decisions on our defence procurements we are in deep trouble.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
The process is to ensure that we spend money neither unwisely, nor in a manner unfair to those offering us goods and services. And the definition of “unwisely” has expanded every time there is any sort of problem, while “unfairly” expands each time an unsuccessful bidder complains. Both are often as the result of an ANAO audit, typically conducted for the most part by young, and admittedly smart, recent graduates with little real world experience. In turn the press picks up the story and paints those doing the procurement as a bunch of idiots. That is far from the truth, but it sticks and yet another regulation and review process is put in place to prevent it happening again. Result? Those doing procurements become increasingly risk averse, and that means they seek to eliminate every risk. And, apart from actually being impossible, that just adds unnecessary layers, and therefore time, to the process.

In times of emergency a rapid acquisition process gets around a lot of that. Down the track problems sometimes emerge, commonly with support packages, but the procurements are done fast. One I am aware of, for a reasonably complex weapons systems was done, and the weapon fielded, in about 10 weeks from the time the operational commander identified the need. And we did have problems later, but the warfighters got what they needed.

So the solution to the problem is to accept that perfect processes are impossible, and that issues will arise. Attempt to mitigate, but not eliminate, the risk; and don’t react with changed regulation and more levels of review to every report in the media that a risk has been realised.

But that doesn’t mean complex acquisitions can be done over night. The technical and commercial assessments of such things take time, and some governance of that process is essential. So deciding on a ship to buy is never going to happen over night; it normally going to take months just to read and assess all the submitted documentation.
I think to provide some comparison with civilian industry norms. I am part of a civilian project that would have a similar value to a small combat ship (say a single good looking corvette). We initiated a project approx 7 years ago, will commence construction this year, and will have it finished by first quarter 2027. So not a disimilar timeframe with it taking more than 10 years from go to wo.

The GPF program is an order of magnitude more than the above example. Gorgon (perhaps WAs largest progect, and of a similar size to the Hunter and GPF programs) took forever to go from initiation to first production, and had massive technical and cost problems (still does).

I would view that Defence is mostly on par with civilian projects for completion timeframes.
 
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