John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Just another confirmation that Trump America is no longer an ally that can be trusted, be it wrt defence or trade.
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
Several times I heard Trump and Vance claim that Z should be thanking them for the aid as if the meeting was about their own perceived personal dignity perhaps they wanted Z to grovel in front of world media ,Vance seemed aggressive from the start of the filmed interview in attacking Z certainly repeatedly reminding Z he doesn't hold cards seemed like an attempt to bully I can imagine Putin just laughing at this
President Putin made a similar claim to Tucker Carlson in an interview without being asked or providing proof,I was not asking about previous actions of the C.I.A often verified ,I am just asking if you have credible sources to reinforce your statement of the C.I.A in the uprising against the then Ukraine government
Ukraine’s 2014 coup was CIA’s political mistake — Putin
The Russian president noted that the US agency had achieved its goal of changing the government but failed to see what it would evolve into
tass.com
rsemmes
Member
Not my statement. Again, you mean if publico.es has credible sources?President Putin made a similar claim to Tucker Carlson in an interview without being asked or providing proof,I was not asking about previous actions of the C.I.A often verified ,I am just asking if you have credible sources to reinforce your statement of the C.I.A in the uprising against the then Ukraine government
This article goes into detail some C.I.A involvement in Ukraine which is post 2014Ukraine’s 2014 coup was CIA’s political mistake — Putin
The Russian president noted that the US agency had achieved its goal of changing the government but failed to see what it would evolve into
It was talking about the final document, the agreement that has not been signed. Had publico.es access to that document? I don't know, I consider publico.es, theguardian and lemonde reliable sources. Do you have any insight about publico.es that I don't know of?
Edit.
I do remember something in a documentary about Bandera and how it was financed, but publico.es made no reference to that.
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rsemmes
Member
Beggars can't be choosers.
I think that Zelenski was ungrateful, as he was before towards Germany. He is not buying weapons in the international market, he is taking what he is given.
There was a moment in the interview, with him with his arms folded, when I thought that I was looking at a child with a tantrum. I thought he got the point: NATO will not fight this war for him. He thought that he was in US to tell POTUS what to do? I am not going to call Trump a responsible adult, nor diplomatic, but Trump is a position of force; Zelenski is not.
Trump didn't told him to go ... himself, just "when he is ready for peace". I wonder what options Zelenski thinks that he, Zelenski, has. I understand the messages of support to Zelenski (words are cheap), but I am just starting to consider if he is delusional or just plain stupid. What do you do when you are losing a war?
I think that Zelenski was ungrateful, as he was before towards Germany. He is not buying weapons in the international market, he is taking what he is given.
There was a moment in the interview, with him with his arms folded, when I thought that I was looking at a child with a tantrum. I thought he got the point: NATO will not fight this war for him. He thought that he was in US to tell POTUS what to do? I am not going to call Trump a responsible adult, nor diplomatic, but Trump is a position of force; Zelenski is not.
Trump didn't told him to go ... himself, just "when he is ready for peace". I wonder what options Zelenski thinks that he, Zelenski, has. I understand the messages of support to Zelenski (words are cheap), but I am just starting to consider if he is delusional or just plain stupid. What do you do when you are losing a war?
Conspiracy hat time-
This is Ukraine playing 4d Chess. Zelensky has made all the US MAGA anti Ukraine rehtoric anti Zelenksy rhetoric instead. Look at Lindsay Graham's ( most anti russia war hawk) statement today, it was antu Zelensky not anti Ukraine.
If Zelensky has a chosen successor who is as anti russia as he is, he can simply step down and give trump a massive egoo boost and "win". The new successor can just come in and simply say that Zelensky was wrong , Trump was right, Trump is awesome, Putin is an evil dictator and a weakling compared to the mighty trump. Ukriane gets all the US support back, Europe no more ramped up than ever before, gives more aid to Ukraine and Ukraine's position is better than ever. Zelensky has his legacy solidifed as the manwho sacrifieced his leadership for Ukraine and remains the ultimate darling of Europe.
Conspiracy hat off.
If Ukraine is not plaanning this, then they should and they should also hire me as a consultant and give me 10 million dollars for by big brain ideas.
This is Ukraine playing 4d Chess. Zelensky has made all the US MAGA anti Ukraine rehtoric anti Zelenksy rhetoric instead. Look at Lindsay Graham's ( most anti russia war hawk) statement today, it was antu Zelensky not anti Ukraine.
If Zelensky has a chosen successor who is as anti russia as he is, he can simply step down and give trump a massive egoo boost and "win". The new successor can just come in and simply say that Zelensky was wrong , Trump was right, Trump is awesome, Putin is an evil dictator and a weakling compared to the mighty trump. Ukriane gets all the US support back, Europe no more ramped up than ever before, gives more aid to Ukraine and Ukraine's position is better than ever. Zelensky has his legacy solidifed as the manwho sacrifieced his leadership for Ukraine and remains the ultimate darling of Europe.
Conspiracy hat off.
If Ukraine is not plaanning this, then they should and they should also hire me as a consultant and give me 10 million dollars for by big brain ideas.
This "show" was a setup to make the Trump administration look good by having Zelensky thank them profusely for the support, and offering to sign the "deal". Zelensky did not follow the script and tried to clarify with "facts".
At a deeper level, Trump and his Administration already has a fixed view how this war started and how they see it will end. Challenging that publically is a non-starter, which was Zelensky's mistake #1. Mistake #2 was his default position that defeating Putin is in US interest. That worked with Biden. But Trump's world view is if you want that, you pay for it and if you don't, then we end the war with Putin's on our own terms/deal and Ukraine pick up the scraps.
First thing I thought when I saw that trainwreck of a press conference was that Zelensky will probably soon be standing down as president. Trump's ego is such that he would sell out Ukraine rather than lose face.Conspiracy hat time-
This is Ukraine playing 4d Chess. Zelensky has made all the US MAGA anti Ukraine rehtoric anti Zelenksy rhetoric instead. Look at Lindsay Graham's ( most anti russia war hawk) statement today, it was antu Zelensky not anti Ukraine.
If Zelensky has a chosen successor who is as anti russia as he is, he can simply step down and give trump a massive egoo boost and "win". The new successor can just come in and simply say that Zelensky was wrong , Trump was right, Trump is awesome, Putin is an evil dictator and a weakling compared to the mighty trump. Ukriane gets all the US support back, Europe no more ramped up than ever before, gives more aid to Ukraine and Ukraine's position is better than ever. Zelensky has his legacy solidifed as the manwho sacrifieced his leadership for Ukraine and remains the ultimate darling of Europe.
Conspiracy hat off.
If Ukraine is not plaanning this, then they should and they should also hire me as a consultant and give me 10 million dollars for by big brain ideas.
Ultimately a lot of the blame will be directed at Zelensky as both Trump and Putin gloat. To be honest it will be hard to watch from the sideline but when you are looking at a battle between massive egos it sometimes requires someone to be the bigger man and step back.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Yes, Zelensky seems still in believe that Trump will still entertaint Biden POV. I don't know whether there're his people that warn him, that Trump is anti Biden. That's also the point that Vance lash out to him.
In the end Trump shown just what he promise to his constituents, that he will not give any more money to Ukraine and he will begin to collect what's he believe it's payment due. This is Trump ways shown US domestic politics shown precedence over foreign policy. He is determine to shown that he is anti Biden on the matter of Ukraine war, and he will do complete opposite.
President Trump again repeated a claim disputed by American sources of how much America has given to Ukraine
abcnews.go.com
It would seem that the press conference was about Z having to show his gratitude publicly sign documents on paying back America for the money spent on aid by allocation of its resources Trump getting a ceasefire allowing Moscow to build up its resources before attacking again( Ukraines fear) without a security commitment from the U.S certainly President Zelensky was ungrateful to fact check Trump and Vance making some absurd claims
Fact-checking Trump's claims on amount of US aid to Ukraine
President Donald Trump, as he navigates the Russia-Ukraine war, is making false claims about the amount of aid the U.S. has given to support Ukraine.
abcnews.go.com
The amended rare earth deal was not even that bad and more importantly, would never have been reality to begin with, Trump just wanted a quick deal done to show the world and his base that he is the master deal maker. This should have been a lay up for Zelensky. He should have gone in, said thank you, praised Trump and subtly hint that US could get even more raw materials if they helped UKr take back the Donbass.
Now going back to the war @Feanor does any Russian source have a count of Fibre optic hits?
A pro Russian twitter made a list that in 2 months.
145 Tanks 254 IFVs and APCs 164 IMVs and around 110 artillery losses.
COnsidering the sheer number of fivre videos I have been seeing, this number is not only believable but almost feels like underselling it. Even the lancet in its heyday did not have this many published hits. The current rate of Ukr vehicle losses to Fibre optics really unsustainable. I wonder how long this advantge will last? so far, both sides have managed to cancel out advantages in a few months.
As per Fighterbomber, Ukrainian EW has managed to reduce the accuracy of UPMKs to a significant extent, lancets are being dowened easily by interceptor FPVs, I wonder what ends up countering the fibre optics.
Now going back to the war @Feanor does any Russian source have a count of Fibre optic hits?
A pro Russian twitter made a list that in 2 months.
145 Tanks 254 IFVs and APCs 164 IMVs and around 110 artillery losses.
COnsidering the sheer number of fivre videos I have been seeing, this number is not only believable but almost feels like underselling it. Even the lancet in its heyday did not have this many published hits. The current rate of Ukr vehicle losses to Fibre optics really unsustainable. I wonder how long this advantge will last? so far, both sides have managed to cancel out advantages in a few months.
As per Fighterbomber, Ukrainian EW has managed to reduce the accuracy of UPMKs to a significant extent, lancets are being dowened easily by interceptor FPVs, I wonder what ends up countering the fibre optics.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11,473
There are over 3000 confirmed Lancet strikes on Lostarmour. There's a good chance that quite a few more aren't covered. So it's not at Lancet numbers yet, but it will certainly get there. These drones are much cheaper. I'm also not sure that interceptor FPVs are all that consistently effective. But wire-guided does seem to be the way to go with drones, at least currently.
Most of those 3000 lancet hits were befoe the introduction of the interceptors. Now I have no idea what the actual hit rate is, but in the last 3 months, I have seen more videos of lancets being intercepted than of lancets hitting targets themselves. There has been a noticeable drop off in lancet videos, even takign itno account the video dumping nature of lancet video releases.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
I actually have no idea because that was Zelensky advisor Podolyak’s 4d or 5d or whatever it is they call it chess moves talk as cited in my post. I think it is pure rubbish, personally, as has been exhibited earlier today. And I will comment on it later in more detail.
Regarding the Lancets. I am under the impression that they have disappeared almost entirely a while back. Whether that is just the lack of released content or lack of use, I have no idea.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Each has context such as timeline and probability. To say there may be less aid in the short term and more in the long term, are not mutually exclusive statements.
Also to say there is a high chance of increase and low chance of decrease are not mutually exclusive statements. And finally to say the composition may change such that quality increases but quantity decreases are also not mutually exclusive.
To clarify once again:
Strengthening Europe is what I predict is Trump's real agenda. This is highly likely to lead to a net increase in aid to Ukraine in at least the long term - whether in quantity, quality, or by affecting the mix such that quality more than compensated for lower quantity.
In the short term, US aid is an unknown. To realize a stronger Europe, such aid is highly likely to fluctuate like a system with a feedback loop.
In the current battle of war materiel attrition, Ukraine has two ways of getting the upper hand - acquire more hardware, or attrit Russia's hardware faster.
The latter itself could be realized in two ways - destroy them more efficiently on the battlefield, or reduce the MIC's output.
Lifting of restrictions and supply of long range munitions could allow Ukraine to hit Russia's MIC.
Be easier to convince Poland if all NATO members reach 4-5%. Poland is also still in early stages of modernization. Its Soviet MBTs are now all history, and it'll depend on how manufacturers can scale up to see if Leopard 2s, howitzers, and other kit can be provided soon. Unlike Israel, another 5% spender, Poland follows the European model of batch buys which has the advantage of faster acquisition and modernization. Meaning in a few years Poland will have industry and supply chains ready to feed Ukraine rapidly if contracts are provided. Less if other nations in Europe start investing in MIC, which thankfully is one of the first investments in a rearmament drive.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
That’s a pretty big “and” though that was missing in your previous post. Otherwise, I don’t see many restrictions that currently exist for the Ukrainian strikes with the assets they have at hand today.
Percentage wise, some may believe otherwise, but comparison to Israel is not exactly appropriate because the circumstances are completely different.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Regarding Trumpy v Zelensky yesterday:
This may be a leap of faith, but I believe in 2 likely possibilities:
This may be a leap of faith, but I believe in 2 likely possibilities:
- It was coordinated.
- Intent - driving Europe further into defense independence.
- Be it via affecting the people and rallying to the flag, or by affecting politicians (less likely).
- Zelensky made a mistake.
- Even if he was factual, it's about being smart, not right.
- The US is still Ukraine's main donor since 2022.
- Getting emotional is the trait of a human, not an effective politician.
- The 50 minute meeting was mostly calm and pleasant. It only erupted in the last 10 minutes.
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Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
It's only big because you marked it in bold and increased text size.
I don't think I missed it in my previous post. And last I checked, there are still restrictions on using western weapons in Russia proper.
ATACMS deliveries for example could be used to inflict serious harm on Russian air assets but so far I'm not familiar with such strikes. Only in occupied areas.
I was referring only to industrial setup. But what exactly do you mean?
