Would be nice if they decided to tack on an order for 4-6 Mogamis to ours (assuming that’s where we land with SEA3000). Good for us, good for NZ, good for JP, bad for CN.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Time to fit icebreaker bows to our fleet. I wonder how a Cape Class will go against a 10,000 tonne Cutter
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
And how do we deal with them? South America has problems I believe.
They will be destroyed like any other illegal fishing vessel.
I don't think that is straight forward to do.
The below articles are from several years ago, however it details how Chinese fishing vessels moved into the Galapagos. They stayed outside the EEZ, but then stripped fished on the very peripheral edge. Australia would have no ability to seize vessels that operated like this outside of war.
These fishing vessels are blue water sea going and can do speeds in the high teens, early 20s. They can be run down by a frigate on on full gas turbine, but nothing really else. A cape has no chance, an Arafua would be useful for patroling, but its a big area.
Now China picks on places like Ecuador because they have minimal ability to fight back. But they could equally park a large fleet 200nm off the coast of Broome or Abrolhos and permanently leave it there. We would have no ability to deal with that, other than perhaps watch it.
How China Targets the Global Fish Supply (Published 2022)
'They will be back': How China's 'dark' fleets are plundering the world's oceans
From this SMH article about the PLAN ships off the coast :
"Crew on the NZ frigate HMNZS Te Kaha, which was shadowing the Chinese ships, reported observing behaviour “consistent with a live fire activity” and monitored the Chinese ships deploying and recovering a floating target."
This sounds consistent with either a 50 cal or 127mm firing. I'm sure both RAN and RNZN units would have confirmed it. (photo from ADF Image Library)
"Crew on the NZ frigate HMNZS Te Kaha, which was shadowing the Chinese ships, reported observing behaviour “consistent with a live fire activity” and monitored the Chinese ships deploying and recovering a floating target."
This sounds consistent with either a 50 cal or 127mm firing. I'm sure both RAN and RNZN units would have confirmed it. (photo from ADF Image Library)
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Second live fire event has happened.
www.theage.com.au
.
China conducts second live fire drill in Tasman Sea
The second live-fire exercise comes just hours after Defence Minister Richard Marles called on China to explain its failure to provide sufficient notice on the first drill on Friday.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Noting how New Zealand's economy probably couldn't handle it realistically 3 to 4 is more a possibly, though I'd love to be proved wrong. Great country by the way, been there three times.
3 would do!
Three ships I suspect was the intention. Three visits is however I suspect what the NZ defence budget will stretch to.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
3 Mogamis.
Osborne shiplift is already rated at 13,000t.
www.ani.com.au
I'm assuming the current upgrade will be to the full design capacity of 22,000t.
www.mcconnelldowell.com
Means pretty much everything in the current RAN fleet can be lifted at Osborne (there is a second smaller one next to it that's used for the subs).
Common Use Infrastructure - Australian Naval Infrastructure
ANI’s Operations team is responsible for the operation and maintenance of common use infrastructure at the Osborne Naval Shipyard. CUI provides critical shipyard infrastructure to support and service naval shipbuilding programs and commercial users.
www.ani.com.au
I'm assuming the current upgrade will be to the full design capacity of 22,000t.
Common User Facility (Techport) - McConnell Dowell
The Creative Construction Company. McConnell Dowell has built thousands of iconic, landmark assets, facilities and infrastructure around the world. Sustainable solutions are fundamental when it comes to building our award winning projects.
Means pretty much everything in the current RAN fleet can be lifted at Osborne (there is a second smaller one next to it that's used for the subs).
This would be fantastic! Does anyone know if this is in development or even being considered?
10 cells each of ESSM and ESSM ER would give Hunter and GPG 40 med Sam’s and 40 er sams each and 12 spare cells for mission specific, would help quite well with magazine depth!
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A good overview on the works happening at Osborne.Osborne shiplift is already rated at 13,000t.
Common Use Infrastructure - Australian Naval Infrastructure
ANI’s Operations team is responsible for the operation and maintenance of common use infrastructure at the Osborne Naval Shipyard. CUI provides critical shipyard infrastructure to support and service naval shipbuilding programs and commercial users.
I'm assuming the current upgrade will be to the full design capacity of 22,000t.
Common User Facility (Techport) - McConnell Dowell
The Creative Construction Company. McConnell Dowell has built thousands of iconic, landmark assets, facilities and infrastructure around the world. Sustainable solutions are fundamental when it comes to building our award winning projects.
Means pretty much everything in the current RAN fleet can be lifted at Osborne (there is a second smaller one next to it that's used for the subs).
Thanks
Thought that was the intention.
Three Mohamis would be a good fit but realistically NZ need to work out their commitment to defence first and what that looks like long term.
That said with the RAN seeking to acquire a good quality vessel in SEA 3000, it would certainly be prudent for NZ to consider this option
A large trans Tasman purchase of up to 14 vessels would have a lot of benefits strategically and economically for all the players.
Regards S
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
It would keep our production line open preventing a valley of death.
Governments have to think beyond short term contracts. The US have been building ABs for how long? And the Japanese continuously build while evolving the designs as they go.
We need to get into that mind set.
Unfortunately nothing that I can find. I am sure there is development on an ESSM block 3 but it doesn't seem to be public.
The ESSM block 2 uses the mk134 rocket, which it shares with it's block 1 older sibling. It's quite big though at about 2 metres (so more than half the full missile length) and comes with a thrust vector control on the end. An option could be to add a second mk134 as a booster. Alternatively there are some other 10 inch rockets used for the larger air to air missiles that could be used if the mk134 is too big.
I don't know what its improved range would be with a booster, but it would not be unreasonable to consider 80-100km and say 20km altitude. That would give it some viability against medium range balistic missiles.
While this may not be much benefit to a large destroyer with a big magazine of SM2s, it would be very useful to a frigate with 16 or 32 cells. All the 17 nations who participate in the ESSM consortium have (or will soon have) small frigates.
As NASAMS can use the AMRAAM ER, which has the body of the ESSM, any extended range could be useful in this application as well.
Adding a booster is however complex. It can impact its short range capability for instance, which is important to engage leakers, and it changes the vectoring controls.
I suspect we will not hear about a block 3 this side of the turn of the decade.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Task Force 107 is now off Tasmania. It looks like they plan to circumnavigate the country.