Israeli Army News & Discussion

[Big_Zucchini]

The IDF is using Trebuchets and other methods to burn vegetation on Lebanon's side of the border.

The operational case:
Hezbollah deploys artillery assets, ambush positions, IEDs, etc, in forests as concealment.

The operational demand:
Destroy these assets efficiently, knowing that finding each one is an uphill battle.

The problem:
Conventional assets are deemed too expensive and scarce to dedicate to such tasks. Initiative comes from the field units.

The solution:
Throw incendiaries to periodically burn down vegetation to at least reveal Hezbollah equipment or ideally have it destroyed in the fire.
In the article, Shai Levy explains the IDF also uses other means like air pressure cannons to throw "molotovs", throwing by hand, and firing tracer bullets on hot days.
He also says the trebuchet has been in use for about half a year, and its use is authorized on the battalion level.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801148869721428151

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801148666939388384

 

[seaspear]

Trebuchets went out of fashion with invention of gunpowder ,Im not sure if ever used in the Middle East someone has a classical mind there

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Trebuchets went out of fashion with invention of gunpowder ,Im not sure if ever used in the Middle East someone has a classical mind there

I don't know if such siege weapons were used around Israel. I'm sure some had an equivalent. But everyone used these:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801260353927483564

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Air pressure cannons used as well, as I mentioned above.
I think what we're seeing here is some form of operational trial in its culmination, to find methods of cheap ignition of Lebanese vegetation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801288403054735674

 

[seaspear]

For increasing the dispersal perhaps hot coals could be used by the trebuchet or having a look at Greek fire

Greek fire | Byzantine, Naval Warfare, Incendiary | Britannica

Greek fire, any of several flammable compositions that were used in warfare in ancient and medieval times. More specifically, the term refers to a mixture introduced by the Byzantine Greeks in the 7th century ce. The employment of incendiary materials in war is of ancient origin; many writers of

www.britannica.com

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Rafael showcases a lightweight force protection solution against aerial threats, incorporating soft kill, multiple types of hard kill, and a high power laser, all mounted on a 4x4 vehicle.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

New Rafael video just dropped. It doesn't really tell us anything new, but it's worth saying the maneuvers in Gaza and Lebanon would have looked very different had Israel not equipped so many of its AFVs with an APS. Game changer is an understatement.

 

[Terran]

Bit of a pay wall article

Soldier-uploaded video reveals the Israeli army's newest machine gun

***

www.haaretz.com

and a teaser place card from

https://x.com/AbraxasSpa/status/1843808706942906714/photo/1?mx=2

Which indicates the potential for Sig USA to have gotten a contract from the IDF for the M250 Aka the Sig LMG 6.8 but chambered in 7.62x51mm. It also seems to indicate the Sig MG338 with ammunition that being .338 Norma magnum.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army's New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

Sig Sauer's Light Machine Gun offers the IDF a lighter and handier alternative to its existing Negev-series machine guns.

www.twz.com

But how many how extensive??

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Bit of a pay wall article

Soldier-uploaded video reveals the Israeli army's newest machine gun

***

www.haaretz.com

and a teaser place card from

https://x.com/AbraxasSpa/status/1843808706942906714/photo/1?mx=2

Which indicates the potential for Sig USA to have gotten a contract from the IDF for the M250 Aka the Sig LMG 6.8 but chambered in 7.62x51mm. It also seems to indicate the Sig MG338 with ammunition that being .338 Norma magnum.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army's New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

Sig Sauer's Light Machine Gun offers the IDF a lighter and handier alternative to its existing Negev-series machine guns.

www.twz.com

But how many how extensive??

All we have is that one video, and a few photos of US Army personnel showing the NGSW to IDF personnel from about a year ago.

We got news, just a few days ago, that the IDF is buying 20,000 "M4-style" rifles from an Israeli company. We also know the IDF received an unspecified number of M4s from the US during the war to bolster civilian guard units.
In contrast, the IDF issued a contract for only about 2,000 X-95 Tavor rifles in 2024.

To me this indicates the IDF is divesting from boutique personal equipment like the Tavor which is not interchangeable with foreign equipment.
This makes sense because on one hand the IDF will be able to diversify its supply chain, and still maintain local production.

I assume the IDF will buy a foreign made MG it could localize, in parallel with the Negev, similar to how it deployed the FN MAG in parallel with the Negev.

 

[Terran]

I doubt this has anything barring on the X95. The Video does seem to show a standard show and tell during joint training.
It makes sense to use AR15 the IDF has a long history with the type and the U.S. has basically given the Israelis as well as other M4’s for a song. Still though the X95 has a place.

The strength of the XM250 is its weight. It uses titanium and was designed for an infantry use case. For the same weight as a Negev 5 empty no accessories the XM250 could be fitted with a suppressor and about 50 rounds of ammo. So I think if the IDF wanted to they could probably justify pushing XM250 to infantry units well keeping the Negev 7 and 5 in the same. Negev and its counterparts the FN Minimi, HK Mg4 and the heavier Fn Mag, HK Mg5 and the like still have a place. These “Assault machine guns” or “Automatic rifles” like KAC’s LAMG, FN EVOLYS and the M250. They are built for mobility not sustained fire. They are a trade up from an assault rifle but down from a proper LMG or in this case GPMG. The heavier LMG or GPMG being better suited to more stationary or mounted roles.

Well everyone latches on to the XM250 the Twitter link also shows the MG338 with an Israeli flag.
MG338 isn’t officially part of the NGSW but has been on the watch list for Socom, the Marines and the Army. Its role is basically to give the infantry a weapon with the range and most of the reach of the M2 browning but at significantly lighter weight than the 84 lbs heavy machine gun. The MG338 tips the scales the same as a reduced weight FN Mag at 21lbs. Though there has been no evidence beyond the poster. I suppose it not getting attention might also just be because it’s so logical that they at least may be evaluating it.

Since I mentioned them one thing that does surprise me about this is we haven’t seen any hint of one of the “light” assault machine guns. The IDF is unlikely to push a move like NGSW’s 6.8x51mm common cartridge replacing both 5.56 and 7.62 in Infantry units, as to date none of their potential adversaries have widespread stockpiles of SAPI plates.
As you just said @Big_Zucchini the IDF is looking at new M4 style rifles though I feel X95 is still a safe bet into the future. If the IDF is and by all evidence is committed to 5.56x45mm yet taking an interest in lighter weight MGs like the XM250 then a 5.56x45mm system should be on the wishlist. The Negev 5 SF ULMG tips the scales at about 14.1 lbs the FN EVOLYS and KAC LAMG are about 11 lbs and were designed for urban warfare and almost exactly the kinds of operations the Israelis are known for.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

The IDF has just begun using the Negev chambered in 7.62mm. I think while it's still in early adoption they can make a switch.

There's the reserve situation to consider though.
In Israel, a brigade is refreshed every couple years with new manpower. A 3-battalion brigade will be refreshed in 3 years. Once active duty ends, a soldier is reassigned to a reserve unit.
Reserve duty ends at the age of 40. So over the years, that active brigade will feed into many reserve brigades.
But it's not easy to switch from a bullpup to a rifle, and reservists largely use M4s, not Tavor variants.
By going all in on an AR15 style rifle, the IDF can standardize its active and reserve units around an increasing volume of kit.

 

[Terran]

The IDF has just begun using the Negev chambered in 7.62mm. I think while it's still in early adoption they can make a switch.

There's the reserve situation to consider though.
In Israel, a brigade is refreshed every couple years with new manpower. A 3-battalion brigade will be refreshed in 3 years. Once active duty ends, a soldier is reassigned to a reserve unit.
Reserve duty ends at the age of 40. So over the years, that active brigade will feed into many reserve brigades.
But it's not easy to switch from a bullpup to a rifle, and reservists largely use M4s, not Tavor variants.
By going all in on an AR15 style rifle, the IDF can standardize its active and reserve units around an increasing volume of kit.

See well that is true. it is also true that IDF is kinda like the USMC in that they never really throw anything away. They will get something use it break it, take it apart and use its bits till the point where in even the Biblical Joshua is incredulous as the how it was resurrected.

The IDF “M4” fleet is a perfect example of this. They range from fresh from the preposition stores U.S. army Spec M4A1 pip to kitbash parts bin “M4” rifles assembled from M16A1 lowers with M16A4 uppers and parts in between coving half a century of Colt production mated to FAB defense accessories. This Frankenstein’s monster M4 and wide variety has probably not had a great effect on the opinions of many in the IDF whom used it.
My point being it is evidence that even in a reduced order book the Tavor and X95 rifles are likely here to stay. Even if the IDF moved to standardize a new build fleet of AR15 and placed large orders. The X95 in its most compact configuration can still find a niche as a PDW in place of long obsolete 9mm Uzi smgs.
Farther they are still ordering and my understanding is the top IDF infantry battalions are keeping X95 for the moment.

Rather than the training aspect I think the move to a large AR15 based carbine has more implications on the sustainability aspect. With the current state of affairs when the armory logistics fall short they have to do these “budget build” M4’s.
One of the advantages of the Tavor is that they have a supply and support in country. If the Rifle breaks they can get the part off the line or send the rifle back to the factory and either it comes back fixed or a replacement. Direct from the factory as the IDF wants it in volume.

Buying an indigenous AR15 from one of their local factories means that they can build the TDP to their own specifications simplifying logistics. If the IDF chooses to adopt a system like Smart shooter in example they can have the receiver sets preconfigured for the trigger modules eliminating the need for much of the unit armorers play gunsmiths.