Israeli Army News & Discussion

Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #121
We are now on day 11 of the war and no ground incursion yet. The 360,000 mobilized reservists are taking a toll on Israel's economy while the window of legitimacy for an Israeli response is rapidly closing.
With or without an incursion, the IDF will need to order a draw-down soon.

My assessment for the following weeks:
Negotiations to release foreign hostages succeed, but not the release of Israeli ones.
The voices of vengeance will calm down and be replaced by the usual voices of partisanship. The public will start forgeting. If the IDF goes in it will likely be limited to a Protective Edge - type maneuver in the now mostly evacuated north Gaza. Possibly it would reoccupy north Gaza and annex it. An operation in southern Gaza will be much more complex due to its now significantly higher density, and due to the IDF's need for a draw-down, it may eventually not occur at all.

Once Israel is free to return to its normal state around Gaza, it can order a further draw-down from the reservist force and be ready for an invasion into Lebanon. By then, legitimacy may already end and the IDF will likely dismiss its last reservists, ending the war and leaving Lebanon unscathed.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #122
Amir Bohbot, the least credible defense reporter in Israel, reports that the Eitan has participated in the first day of the war in Nahal's efforts to hunt down Hamas terrorists. As is now well known, Nahal were highly involved in the first response, and are also the first IDF brigade to adopt the Eitan, albeit still as an experimental tool.

Unfortunately, still no APS and no turret. The Iron Fist APS destined for the Eitan, is reportedly capable of shooting down light drones of the type Hamas uses. However, without it, it most likely isn't capable of dealing with the more modern ATGMs Hamas possesses, and almost certainly incapable of defending against such drones.

We can see that although the IDF is technologically highly advanced, there's still much to be desired. I remind that in the first day of the war, Hamas managed to utilize drones to neutralize border cameras and other systems, and the IDF did not have a proper solution in place at the time, despite the threat being realized years ago.
news.walla.co.il

טבילת האש הראשונה: נגמ"ש "האיתן" חיסל מחבלים בחוף זיקים - וואלה חדשות

לוואלה! נודע כי נגמ"ש העתיד של צה"ל הוכנס לפעילות חודשים לפני התכנון כדי לקחת חלק במלחמה בעזה. ביום הראשון למלחמה חיסלו אנשי סיירת הנח"ל על גבי הנגמ"ש מחבלים בחוף זיקים. לפי התכנון, הנגמ"ש ישולב בתמרון הקרקעי בעזה לכשייצא לפועל: "בשורה לכוחות היבשה"
news.walla.co.il news.walla.co.il
 
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Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #125
Feanor said:
I can't help but wonder. Is Hamas holding back their drones? Or do they not have enough to do this on a much larger scale? 2 videos in 2 weeks isn't much to speak of.
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No idea. But I think a casualty when the IDF occupies Gaza is worth more to them than a casualty when the IDF prepares to enter.
The former could tire the Israeli public, while the latter would only raise demands to enter sooner.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Big_Zucchini said:
No idea. But I think a casualty when the IDF occupies Gaza is worth more to them than a casualty when the IDF prepares to enter.
The former could tire the Israeli public, while the latter would only raise demands to enter sooner.
Click to expand...
The roof cages march triumphal. 2022 people were making fun of them. 2023, they're quickly becoming commonplace on the modern battlefield.

shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com

В приказном порядке

Крышами начинают обзаводится даже местные Caterpillarы D9 А у коллег в shusharmor и другая БТТ
shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com
shusharmor.livejournal.com

Вот и "Пума" сподобилась.

Тяжелый БТР "ПУМА"(это израильское сокращение, никак не слово) с "мангалом" и мешками с песком. 2023.
shusharmor.livejournal.com

Even India is joining the team. I suspect that unless some fairly universal means are devised for dealing with the UAS threat, these will be commonplace on all types of vehicles in all types of countries.

VK.com | VK

vk.com vk.com
shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com

И Азия присоединяется к челленджу #ямымангалы

Индусы вот, кто следующий? телеграм - канал bmpd
shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com
 
Terran

Terran

Well-Known Member
@Fendor it’s not that it has no utility it’s just it’s of limited utility.

The cope cages are similar to the slat or cage armor that Stryker and other 8x8 sported in Iraq. Which is almost exactly what the Russians were developing their sets from experience in Syria Its functional for a set protection level but beyond that it is out of its depths. vs roof top fired rpg7 or quad copter drones dropping glorified grenades or even model planes with a warhead glued on. It’s fine and that is exactly what the Israelis are dealing with often. The Cheap low barrier to entry threats that can be defeated by just simple countermeasures.

In Ukraine war however the Russians were not facing that. They were facing an adversary who was getting state of the art top attack ATGM in the form of Javelin and NLAW among others. Well beyond what the umbrella cage was designed for or able to counter. So it gets cut through like a hot knife into butter.
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Terran said:
@Fendor it’s not that it has no utility it’s just it’s of limited utility.

The cope cages are similar to the slat or cage armor that Stryker and other 8x8 sported in Iraq. Which is almost exactly what the Russians were developing their sets from experience in Syria Its functional for a set protection level but beyond that it is out of its depths. vs roof top fired rpg7 or quad copter drones dropping glorified grenades or even model planes with a warhead glued on. It’s fine and that is exactly what the Israelis are dealing with often. The Cheap low barrier to entry threats that can be defeated by just simple countermeasures.

In Ukraine war however the Russians were not facing that. They were facing an adversary who was getting state of the art top attack ATGM in the form of Javelin and NLAW among others. Well beyond what the umbrella cage was designed for or able to counter. So it gets cut through like a hot knife into butter.
Click to expand...
That's not entirely true. While Russia's thought process was indeed to see if this could work against top-attack ATGMs, Ukraine had a robust quadcopter munition drop capability from the '14-'15 campaigns. They were a threat to begin with. In general, however, your point is taken. I just find it ironic that while this measure was mocked a year ago, it's spreading now in the face of the realities of the modern battlefield.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #129
@Feanor a colleague of mine is a former artillery man. I asked him about shoot and scoot and tactical mobility and he said they do in fact train a lot and take precautions.

In real combat they adjust the mobility needs to the threat level. He also said that such groupings are usually gone to another location every 15 minutes.
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Big_Zucchini said:
@Feanor a colleague of mine is a former artillery man. I asked him about shoot and scoot and tactical mobility and he said they do in fact train a lot and take precautions.
In real combat they adjust the mobility needs to the threat level. He also said that such groupings are usually gone to another location every 15 minutes.
Click to expand...
This makes sense but doesn't really protect them from this new threat. Hamas doesn't have a bunch of counter-battery radars to direct a real-time retaliatory strike against the battery. And even if they did, I'm sure Israel would destroy them very quickly. Radars are massive emitters. It's why neither Russia nor Ukraine can keep their counter-battery radars alive for very long. Both are losing them fairly quickly. The threat here is that a Mavic 3 quadcopter is hanging out watching your battery set up. You shoot, you scoot, but it follows. The strike package that arrives will be either FPV drones, or munition drop hexa-copters, and it won't matter you fast you scoot from the position you fired from. This is where dispersion, to minimize damage, and camouflage, can go a much longer way then rapid relocation. And it's one of those where each individual mission, your changes of getting spotted aren't very high, but over time sooner or later they will find you. The more drones they have the sooner. With that in mind, this might be a moot point, if Israel's anti-UAS protection is so solid that this isn't a concern.
 
S

seaspear

Well-Known Member
With regards to the U.S being asked to supply munitions to Israel what type would these be as Isarael has already cutting edge lead in this and would certainly have the edge over Hamas
 
Terran

Terran

Well-Known Member
seaspear said:
With regards to the US being asked to supply munitions to Israel what type would these be as Isarael has already cutting edge lead in this and would certainly have the edge over Hamas
Click to expand...
The IDF and US DOD don't use as much of the same heavy equipment as they used to. But they both stockpile to NATO standards. Outside of shipping back the Army's Iron dome sets, I doubt any heavy equipment transfers. This isn't like Ukraine where the stocks of Soviet equipment are finite and the western world is doing a rushed standardization to counter the attrition of Warsaw pact ammunition stores.
The IDF would probably be raiding prepositioned stores in the country for ammunition primarily. Artillery shells, mortars, Rockets, automatic cannons, tank shells even small arms and explosive devices like grenades. These are things the IDF being built to NATO standards can load and lock without issue.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #133
seaspear said:
With regards to the U.S being asked to supply munitions to Israel what type would these be as Isarael has already cutting edge lead in this and would certainly have the edge over Hamas
Click to expand...
Aircraft spare parts, expedited delivery of US-made Israeli equipment (offshored production), aviation fuel, diesel, and Mk80 series bombs, as well as personal equipment including rifles and ammo.

Regarding artillery, Ukraine and Russia are outliers. Their usage of artillery is excessive due to the lack of air superiority and aerial munitions in general for both stand-in and stand-off missions. What either side spends in a day, Israel could take a whole month to use. That is one reason why Israel was ready to part with 300k prepositioned 155mm shells for Ukraine.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

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  • #136
Puma sporting some sandbags and more curiously some new black sheets over its side skirts.
 
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