Going Boeing
Well-Known Member
The Fleet Air Arm Historical UH-1B (currently being maintained and flown by HARS) was at the rear of that formation. Pics courtesy of HARS.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
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Like a parade in red square, you can always find enough assets to show off when needed.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
I don’t know, didn’t the Russians only have a single WW2 era T-34 at their May Day parade last year rather then the usual massed armour?Like a parade in red square, you can always find enough assets to show off when needed.
iambuzzard
Active Member
iambuzzard
Active Member
On RAN matters, do we have an approximate time on the down select for the GBF? I'm keen to see if it's the Evolved Mogami or Ocean 4300.
Both seem capable ships with the same VLS capacity we need, with the Mogami having the edge with ASW. It really appears the European options are out of the picture.
Both seem capable ships with the same VLS capacity we need, with the Mogami having the edge with ASW. It really appears the European options are out of the picture.
I'd imagine it's not far away.
"It's meant to be a quick to service project"
It's not the sort of announcement you would have in December when focus is on generally on other things.
Octobers all but done and next year pushes out the project further down the road, so I'm guessing next month.
Fingers crossed
Cheers S
With the cancellation of SEA 1905, many people think the Mogami has the edge on the Koreans with its stern ramp -usv and uuv mcm capability.
OldTex
Well-Known Member
What better time to hide away a potentially contentious announcement than the Xmas-New Year period. Be it the selected contractor or the number or the budget etc, the lack of scrutiny gives an opportunity to the GotD to craft suitable explanations/excuses.
I agree, it feels like a two horse race. I am actually hoping they will just make a final selection. Probably won't get us the first ship any quicker but it will give us some extra time to set up construction in Australia.
SiVisPacemParaBellum
New Member
German article on the tkMS-proposal.
Not paywalled as of now
esut.de
Not paywalled as of now
Australien auf Fregatten-Kurs: Deutsch-australische Rüstungskooperation in Reichweite
Im Rahmen des australischen Flottenumbaus bietet sich für Deutschland eine strategische Gelegenheit: Der geplante Bau von Tier-2-Kampfschiffen könnte die bewährten MEKO-Designs von thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (tkMS) ins Spiel bringen. Doch für eine erfolgreiche Partnerschaft bedarf es nicht nur...
esut.de
They announced selection would be in 2025 when they released the surface fleet analysis. if it is announced before then that would likely be because it was (seen by the government) to be politically advantageous for the government to do so. Also bear in mind there is an entire class of LC-H to be selected and built in Henderson before GPF construction starts,
The gap between 2025 selection and 2026 offshore construction commencement does seem small though.
I would not be so sure the selection will be between the latest version of Mogami and Ocean 4300. Those versions (or further evolutions) may feature for ships 7-11
Does raise the question ,would the government prefer to advertise they are active in the defence space or prefer to keep big project announcements low key?
Airforce are just tracking along
Army has a vehicle fleet revamp,but the vehicle numbers are down in some areas below what many would desire
Navy are the winners with the two big ticket items in town. being SSNs and Sea 3000
In dollars these two dwarf anything else in dollar terms
With the OPV numbers halved, no update on survey or MCMs capabilities and no plans for HMAS Choules replacement one would think government may want to show some positivity with news around SEA 3000
time will tell
Regards S
German article on the tkMS-proposal.
Not paywalled as of now
Australien auf Fregatten-Kurs: Deutsch-australische Rüstungskooperation in Reichweite
Im Rahmen des australischen Flottenumbaus bietet sich für Deutschland eine strategische Gelegenheit: Der geplante Bau von Tier-2-Kampfschiffen könnte die bewährten MEKO-Designs von thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (tkMS) ins Spiel bringen. Doch für eine erfolgreiche Partnerschaft bedarf es nicht nur...
Translated
‘Tier 2 Combatants – German options in competition
The Tier 2 Combatants are designed as medium-sized, multi-role frigates designed to complement high-value units such as the Hobart-class destroyers and the Hunter-class anti-submarine frigates. When procuring this new class, the focus is on rapid delivery and technology transfer. To achieve this, the first three frigates will be produced in the contractor's country, while the remaining ships from the fourth will be manufactured in Australia. The first three ships must be based on designs that have already been operationally tested.
For the first batch of three frigates to be produced in Germany, tkMS is offering the MEKO A-200. This frigate is 121 meters long, 16.34 meters wide and has a displacement of 3,940 tons. It is capable of accommodating both a Seahawk helicopter and two unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). The MEKO A-200 is powered by a CODAG WARP system, which enables a top speed of over 28 knots. At a cruising speed of 16 knots, she has a range of 6,500 nautical miles. The crew numbers 125 people, including the helicopter contingent, and there is space for an additional 49 people.
When delivering the MEKO A-200EN for Egypt, tkMS has already shown that they can both deliver quickly and implement technology transfer. There are two possible versions of the A-200 available for Australia.
On the one hand there is the MEKO A-200 Batch III, which was built for Egypt. It is equipped with the ATLAS Elektronik ANCS Combat Management System (CMS), the Thales NS-110 radar and a sonar suite from ATLAS Elektronik. The armament includes, among other things, the 127/64 Lightweight anti-ship gun from Leonardo, 32 MICA NG anti-aircraft missiles, 16 Exocet MM40 Block 3 anti-ship missiles from MBDA as well as Typhoon 30mm Remote Weapon Stations (RWS) from Rafael and MU90 lightweight torpedoes.
Alternatively, the MEKO A-200 Batch IV could also be adapted for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). This version could include Saab's 9LV guidance and weapons deployment system, Saab's Sea Giraffe 4A radar and a Thales sonar suite. Possible armament would include a 76/62 STRALES naval gun from Leonardo, 16 NSM anti-ship missiles from Kongsberg and 16 MK41 'Tactical' VLS cells for 64 ESSM Block 2 anti-aircraft missiles. A PHALANX short-range defense system and Nulka decoy launchers could also be integrated.
Both versions of the MEKO A-200 apparently meet the requirements of the Royal Australian Navy and could therefore be considered for the first batch to be built in Germany. Delivery of the first batch is planned for 2029 and the costs are estimated at around two billion euros.
Given the growing importance of the Indo-Pacific region, cooperation between Germany and Australia is also of strategic importance in the field of defense industry. After successful joint military exercises such as “Talisman Saber 23” and “Pitch Black”, the possible cooperation within the framework of the Tier 2 project offers the opportunity to further deepen German-Australian arms cooperation. This has already received positive impulses with the production of 123 Boxer-based weapon carriers in Australia.
But for successful cooperation, political support from Berlin is required in order to exploit the full potential of this partnership.’
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Going Boeing
Well-Known Member
Some time ago, the Australian Government cancelled a RAN order for the Schiebel Camcopter S-100 and have now placed an order for 12 FlightWave Edge 130 Blue from Red Cat. As they are ISR platforms, I assume that they are replacements for the S-100’s.
They also have some additional capabilities which make them similar to Strix, being developed by BAES Australia.
Red Cat to Supply FlightWave Edge 130 Blue Systems to RAN
They also have some additional capabilities which make them similar to Strix, being developed by BAES Australia.
Red Cat to Supply FlightWave Edge 130 Blue Systems to RAN
Looks like a toy by comparison.
MB
Glad navy are doing something in this space.
Quick search turned up this info from Flightwave.
Edge 130 Blue – FlightWave Aerospace Systems
Introducing the Edge 130 Blue - the ultimate military-grade tricopter for your long-range mapping, inspection, surveillance, and reconnaissance needs. With ... Read More
www.flightwave.aero
Looks the same.
As spoz mentions, it looks like a toy in comparison to Schiebels offering.
That said, I assume its low cost and has a place across the fleet.
If it proves its worth I'd imagine it's cheap enough to buy in significant numbers to employ on every vessel from a Cape to a LHD.
Still see a place for a S-100 sized platform in conjunction with the above and also manned helicopters.
Cheers S
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/news/navy-seeking-5-inch-anti-drone-capability?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ADM Today - 29 Oct 2024&utm_content=ADM Today - 29 Oct 2024+CID_a20790514361c46d46262f04e00e49f4&utm_source=Email marketing software&utm_term=Navy seeking 5-inch anti-dro
Interesting article linked above. The government is looking for a mk45 compatible anti drone shell. Must be ready to use with existing ship systems.
Using the big gun and its longer range over phalanx/RAM would provide a useful layer of protection, and minimise the need for very expensive missiles.
I'm aware the mk45 can be used in an anti air mode with reasonable effectiveness, particularly against slower moving targets, so anti drone fits within this capability.
I'm guessing they are looking for an airburst proximity fused shell. I thought we already had the HE VT style shells which have proximity sensors, so keen to understand if these are perhaps ineffective against small drones, or still too expensive.
Interesting article linked above. The government is looking for a mk45 compatible anti drone shell. Must be ready to use with existing ship systems.
Using the big gun and its longer range over phalanx/RAM would provide a useful layer of protection, and minimise the need for very expensive missiles.
I'm aware the mk45 can be used in an anti air mode with reasonable effectiveness, particularly against slower moving targets, so anti drone fits within this capability.
I'm guessing they are looking for an airburst proximity fused shell. I thought we already had the HE VT style shells which have proximity sensors, so keen to understand if these are perhaps ineffective against small drones, or still too expensive.
Underway
Member
The Greeks proved that 127mm is perfectly fine vs drones while in the Red Sea (as did the US) in particular in conjunction with decent EA. There's a good article out there on it. (Naval News I think?)
If they can do it then what is Australia looking for that they don't have or doesn't already exist?
Going Boeing
Well-Known Member
Pat Conroy is currently delivering an interesting speech to the National Press Club and I was surprised when he said this government is in the process of increasing the number of missile launchers in the RAN fleet to 880. The way that he said it indicated that he was talking about the Mk41 VLS. The breakdown appears to be as follows:
Hobart class 3 x 48 = 144
Hunter class 6 x 32 = 192
GPF class 11 x 32 = 352
LOCSV class 6 x 32 = 192
Total = 880
If this is a correct breakdown, then it confirms that the Government intends the GPF to have 32 launchers, not 16 as offered in the smaller vessels under consideration. It also confirms that the Hunter class will only get 32 launchers.
He also made a number of announcements about missile and ammunition production locally. $500M to boost the supply chain in support of this.
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-10-30/australia-forges-ahead-missile-and-munitions-manufacturing#:~:text=The Government today announced Thales,for 155mm M795 artillery ammunition.
Australia announces rapid munitions, missile manufacturing with Thales, Lockheed Martin
Hobart class 3 x 48 = 144
Hunter class 6 x 32 = 192
GPF class 11 x 32 = 352
LOCSV class 6 x 32 = 192
Total = 880
If this is a correct breakdown, then it confirms that the Government intends the GPF to have 32 launchers, not 16 as offered in the smaller vessels under consideration. It also confirms that the Hunter class will only get 32 launchers.
He also made a number of announcements about missile and ammunition production locally. $500M to boost the supply chain in support of this.
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-10-30/australia-forges-ahead-missile-and-munitions-manufacturing#:~:text=The Government today announced Thales,for 155mm M795 artillery ammunition.
Australia announces rapid munitions, missile manufacturing with Thales, Lockheed Martin
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