NZDF General discussion thread

On Newstalk ZB this morning. Does give some hope that the loss of Manawanui may have a silver lining if its serves as a wake up call to government and the public about the need to invest more in the NZDF.

 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Hmmm, this isn't a good look.

Former CDF appointed as Lockheed Martin NZ country lead

Too soon, LM. Too soon.
Optics might be somewhat negative but if there is no law in place to restrict employment for a specified interval.....Furthermore what time interval would be appropriate, one year, two, or more years? Besides, the minimal efforts of NZ's government to address defence needs seems to offer little immediate prospects for LM unless there is a secret plan to restore fighters to the RNZAF. :p
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Optics might be somewhat negative but if there is no law in place to restrict employment for a specified interval.....Furthermore what time interval would be appropriate, one year, two, or more years? Besides, the minimal efforts of NZ's government to address defence needs seems to offer little immediate prospects for LM unless there is a secret plan to restore fighters to the RNZAF. :p
Restoration of a strike component to NZDF is highly unlikely due to the politics involved. However if logic does some day come to the fore, this would be the logical step as it is the best way to defend NZ. It may be said the only way that does not involve truly massive forces of other types.
 
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Gooey

Well-Known Member
Has anyone come across this rumor in the press: from our esteemed UK site ARRSE https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/hamas-attack-on-israel-7-oct-23.315900/page-3313

American of Iranian origin named Ariane Tabatabai is widely regarded in US Intel and Defense circles to have been the leaker of IDF attack plans.
She is currently the director of the office of the Assistant to Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin for Special Operations and International Conflicts.
Currently the Biden admin is trying to blame New Zealand as being the leaker, claiming that as part of 5 eyes they saw the clearly marked NOFORN (no Foreign Nationals) docs and being little enough not to matter they can take the fall.

To me this poster doesn't make sense as he/she is mixing up (very high) REL://USA,FVEY documents, which NZ may see, with (very high) NOFORN documents which NZ would not have access to.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
And in addition to your commentary it also wouldn't make sense for NZ's most pro-US government (foreign policy) since the 1970's/early '80's to do something like that.

Anyway haven't heard the "blame claim" repeated in the NZ media, who otherwise would be "obsessively" eager to full-on trumpet such claims, so unsure of its veracity (and without understanding the original source and context etc).
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Probably got to expensive for the current government to swallow. :rolleyes: maybe being trimmed or the umptenth time to what the government will swallow with out a dead rat being included. Sorry, but I am not optimistic regarding this Government.:(
 

jbc388

Member
Probably got to expensive for the current government to swallow. :rolleyes: maybe being trimmed or the umptenth time to what the government will swallow with out a dead rat being included. Sorry, but I am not optimistic regarding this Government.:(
I don't like saying this but this National led government just will not spend any extra funding at all on the defence force, but the PM will still talk up our military contributions overseas.
I'm hoping the US,UK,Aust will apply serious pressure to pull our weight!!
 

Lolcake

Active Member
To be honest can't see the nz govt announcing anything more than commonality with the ADF wrt repalcement platforms . E.g redback, boxer, mogami, seahawk etc

Pipe dream to expect anything more, particularly on the strategic strike front.. but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
 

Challenger

New Member
To be honest can't see the nz govt announcing anything more than commonality with the ADF wrt repalcement platforms . E.g redback, boxer, mogami, seahawk etc

Pipe dream to expect anything more, particularly on the strategic strike front.. but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
At this point I’d be happy to see Redbacks, Boxers, Mogamis and Seahawks all purchased and chalk that up as a massive win for the NZDF.

Does anyone in the know understand when/why the DCP is still yet to be released or if there has been an offical announcement? Appreciate it’s possibly a mix of the economy, domestic politics (lay offs in the public sector vs ordering warships) and Trump, but this all speculation.

I’d assume at a minimum Trumps’ election has removed any doubt that 2% must be achieved… yesterday?
 
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ddxx

Well-Known Member
Actual commonality and a true effort between AU & NZ to mutually exploit every inch of efficiency through economies of scale to maximise actual capability in both quality and quantity should be a complete no-brainer.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
Actual commonality and a true effort between AU & NZ to mutually exploit every inch of efficiency through economies of scale to maximise actual capability in both quality and quantity should be a complete no-brainer.
That doesn't generally work because Australia tends to over-complicate, over-pay and then do-over everything they do which is all well and good if you can afford to, which NZ can't, literally (in fact most countries can't) so no, not as "no-brainer" as alot like to make out. For example we are not achieving any benefit at all from "economies of scale" if Australia pays a premium for X capability it gets (which it regularly seems to do) as it's then just as, if not more expensive anyway ultimately for something suited to Australian requirements, roles and needs. Australia tends to buy high end tech equipment and then adds their own unique spin on it to get maximum possible outcome (for them) and while most countries like to do this to some degree Aus are next level! Nifty notion and sounds cool when you say it out loud and all but usually a false economy in reality at best.
 
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Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The reality is that NZ needs firstly to re-acquip to a standard to defend ourselves at least for a limited period of time, then, when that is achieved, regional defence becomes the next priority. Currently the NZDF would struggle to defend a small outlying island as the focus on actual defence was lost when Helen Clark became PM and the benign strategic concept took over. The rundown from an average of 2.5% GDP defence budget in the 1980's to around 1% now means there is a lot of catching up to do and I doubt if the current government will do anything except piecemeal bits and pieces. They will however claim to be addressing the problem, but their words will not match the reality. The lost capabilities we had in the 1980's will take decades to restore in terms of both knowledge and expertise and equipment and the cost will be well beyond even 2% GDP budget. Our pollies have been asleep at the wheel in regards to defence for a long time.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The reality is that NZ needs firstly to re-acquip to a standard to defend ourselves at least for a limited period of time, then, when that is achieved, regional defence becomes the next priority. Currently the NZDF would struggle to defend a small outlying island as the focus on actual defence was lost when Helen Clark became PM and the benign strategic concept took over. The rundown from an average of 2.5% GDP defence budget in the 1980's to around 1% now means there is a lot of catching up to do and I doubt if the current government will do anything except piecemeal bits and pieces. They will however claim to be addressing the problem, but their words will not match the reality. The lost capabilities we had in the 1980's will take decades to restore in terms of both knowledge and expertise and equipment and the cost will be well beyond even 2% GDP budget. Our pollies have been asleep at the wheel in regards to defence for a long time.
Perhaps not to the same extent but Canada is in the same situation. Canada is now experiencing pressure to get their $hit together wrt defence, hopefully results will be positive. Interested to know if this pressure is being applied to NZ and will it be positive? Apparently both countries have pollies that like to park their heads up where the sun doesn’t shine!
 

jbc388

Member
Perhaps not to the same extent but Canada is in the same situation. Canada is now experiencing pressure to get their $hit together wrt defence, hopefully results will be positive. Interested to know if this pressure is being applied to NZ and will it be positive? Apparently both countries have pollies that like to park their heads up where the sun doesn’t shine!
The problem is that New Zealand pollies will still behave and act as if nothings wrong even when "someone kicks their behinds" the NZ LAbour party is good example of this "Labour won't join AUKUS T2" so short sighted!! and The governing National Party have delayed the DCP yet again!! this party just don't want to spend any sort of reasonable budget to start to sort out the defense mess that both of the major political parties have created over the last 25 plus years!!

The trouble is that I have no faith with NZ pollies at all they are all pretty useless!! blind to a world view and only see the local restriced vision!
 
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