Premiums alone would sky high haha! but yes another cost that would have to be passed onto the customer, RNZAF. I doubt the 757s are even insured and the govt just underwrites them and takes the risk on a total hull loss, something a lessor probably wouldnt be willing to take a chance on for a multi $million aircraft/investment despite the promise of 1 little old lady flyer and only on Sundays?
NZDF General discussion thread
- Thread starter NZLAV
- Start date
Morning All
To replace the B757 is an interesting discussion , I will throw my two cents into the well.
MRTT – I feel its just too big (attached image) for operations in NZ and the Pacific. It would not be able to be based at WP or OH. CH or AA would be the only options to lift off at MAUW, remember we moved the P8 to OH largely for the runway , and even that is too short to enable a MAUW take off. This frame does not come standard with upper deck cargo.
KC46 – This could work, although again they would have to move to OH and even then Im sure it would not be able to MAUW Ops. She does have a cargo door and set up for this. Within a few years there will be close to 3x as many of these in service than MRTT. I get a bit tired of the “cos the RAAF has that kit , we should too. “ The B767 has operated all over the Pacific. Air NZ has previous experience.
KHI C2 – Many years ago we were able to whip the rotor head off a Huey and push it into the Herk , M113s , Landies and Scorpions drive in. Today no show , like me , the NZDF has expanded around the waist and our lack of capability has become a burden on other nations. We have to call in our 5 eyes partners to move our kit , not good, in fact just plain embarrassing. The C2 would solve this issue. It would become the preferred Antarctica frame and could be still based at WP. Its not a great “airforce one “ by looks , but Im sure with some creative pallet work we could come up with a VIP interior.
No serious option is going to be cheap , esp if we get the minimum number of 4 frames. The second order effects, depending on the frame, are going to be significant too with re basing costs. One could even say , maybe its time for a new airbase to future proof the NZDF ? Another couple of thoughts are , 1. with the decline of trade with China should we be looking at using the purchase of this aircraft (and others , like Maritime helo) to help push a free trade deal with the US. 2. Acquiring a Tanker is not a silly idea. Like the Navy with ROA our frames could be off contributing to global efforts. 3. Should conflict happen in Asia the Tanker/cargo would be a prime asset across the Pacific.
Sadly for the NZ and the NZDF , If I was to put on my “reality hat” I would think the DCP will say , do not replace the 757 , buy two more C130 and charter VIP as required.
To replace the B757 is an interesting discussion , I will throw my two cents into the well.
MRTT – I feel its just too big (attached image) for operations in NZ and the Pacific. It would not be able to be based at WP or OH. CH or AA would be the only options to lift off at MAUW, remember we moved the P8 to OH largely for the runway , and even that is too short to enable a MAUW take off. This frame does not come standard with upper deck cargo.
KC46 – This could work, although again they would have to move to OH and even then Im sure it would not be able to MAUW Ops. She does have a cargo door and set up for this. Within a few years there will be close to 3x as many of these in service than MRTT. I get a bit tired of the “cos the RAAF has that kit , we should too. “ The B767 has operated all over the Pacific. Air NZ has previous experience.
KHI C2 – Many years ago we were able to whip the rotor head off a Huey and push it into the Herk , M113s , Landies and Scorpions drive in. Today no show , like me , the NZDF has expanded around the waist and our lack of capability has become a burden on other nations. We have to call in our 5 eyes partners to move our kit , not good, in fact just plain embarrassing. The C2 would solve this issue. It would become the preferred Antarctica frame and could be still based at WP. Its not a great “airforce one “ by looks , but Im sure with some creative pallet work we could come up with a VIP interior.
No serious option is going to be cheap , esp if we get the minimum number of 4 frames. The second order effects, depending on the frame, are going to be significant too with re basing costs. One could even say , maybe its time for a new airbase to future proof the NZDF ? Another couple of thoughts are , 1. with the decline of trade with China should we be looking at using the purchase of this aircraft (and others , like Maritime helo) to help push a free trade deal with the US. 2. Acquiring a Tanker is not a silly idea. Like the Navy with ROA our frames could be off contributing to global efforts. 3. Should conflict happen in Asia the Tanker/cargo would be a prime asset across the Pacific.
Sadly for the NZ and the NZDF , If I was to put on my “reality hat” I would think the DCP will say , do not replace the 757 , buy two more C130 and charter VIP as required.
Teal, you read my mind.
Noting that the Boeings operate more missions than just pollies, but is the VIP role really core RNZAF business?
Would doubling our C-130 fleet be more militarily relevant instead, IOT concentrate training and logistics?
A four acft force of very long range communications jets instead, possibly leased?
Mostly though, its June and the DCP will be out shortly to answer these ramblings.
Noting that the Boeings operate more missions than just pollies, but is the VIP role really core RNZAF business?
Would doubling our C-130 fleet be more militarily relevant instead, IOT concentrate training and logistics?
A four acft force of very long range communications jets instead, possibly leased?
Mostly though, its June and the DCP will be out shortly to answer these ramblings.
Yes more C130 and 1 x leased VIP transport would be more 'militarily relevant' although I doubt the Govt will want to spend up much on too many additional C130 (if any at all). I'd like to see 8-10 C130 but now that the DCP won't be punlished until closer to Oct/Nov I suspect the Govt is tinkering with it to dampen down expectations of a $$$ spend-up. To be fair tho the B757 provide 40Sqn with significantly more capability than the constant VIP moniker would imply and 1 x C130J-30 does not replace a B757 on a 1:1 ratio... when either is actually operable!
kiwi in exile
Active Member
More stalling, less commitment.
kiwi in exile
Active Member
defmin Collins on TVNZ Q and A
Realistic about issues faced by nZDF and NZ geostrategically.
Not giving anything away re upcomming DCP or Aukus pillar II
She sounds pro-drones but not neccesarily combat drones
Realistic about issues faced by nZDF and NZ geostrategically.
Not giving anything away re upcomming DCP or Aukus pillar II
She sounds pro-drones but not neccesarily combat drones