Thanks, you're right.
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Fincantieri also built the Sauro class in the 80s and 90s for the Italian Navy.
x.com
Both the FTI and PPA are smaller and cheaper than the FREMM.France Offers FDI Frigate to Indonesia with Domestic Production Option - Naval News
French shipbuilder Naval Group is offering the fully configured Defense and Intervention Frigates (FDI) to Indonesia.
More detail on the FDI Frigate offer from NG. 36 MO offer for first frigate can be one of main attractions from NG. No wonder that Frenchie salesman talk down on current Arrowhead 140 derivative project (Red-White Frigates) as going to be overdue on schedule (thus potentially over budget). Well he's afterall known to talk down other projects to increase chances of the project that he's representing. He is trying to get FDI ahead and replacing the Arrowhead program (or at least curtail chances for further batches).
FDI and Arrowhead 140 are both Diesel Electric propulsion. That's can be one of attractions. Seems with PAL still committed to Arrowhead 140, either NG find new partner (just like Fincantieri does with Noahtu Shipyard), or FDI build mostly in French. Considering political need to build domestically, unless PAL improve their facilities capacities (rumours say they are looking on building or acquiring new shipyard), seems unlikely they can build both Arrowhead 140 and FDI at similar timetable.
Still Arrowhead 140, PPA and now this FDI. Perhaps the salesman aim to insert FDI between Arrowhead and PPA, and get 4 for each type. With that it's still in line for 12 Frigates target.
However Arrowhead 140 derivative already shown going to use similar sensors with PPA, while FDI offer different suits. Something that's going need to convince MinDef on this. Seems Frenchie salesman still has long work ahead to do.
That single F-15EX acquisition can mess up every other procurement program for TNI-AD/TNI-AL/TNI-AU, unless the government is satisfied with just four F-15EXs in FFBNW-configuration without any armament and with an absolute minimum of training and spareparts just for the airshows.Asside on Xavier video, Fincantieri X also shown what they offering is U212NFS. Put the X link again from my previous post #2,688. Rumours in here say that just like in FREMM offer before, Fincantieri also offering interim subs if Indonesia want to take their U212NFS offer. The interim Submarine they offer is the last two Sauro still in service.
x.com
Still for me, as I mentioned before 209-1400 has bigger chances to get this tactical submarine deal. Either from activating 2nd Batch submarine contract with DSME/Hanwha Ocean, or getting 2nd hand 209-1400 from Brazil or Turkiye inventory. Still Fincantieri is quite advance on doing Lobby in MinDef and PAL, just like NG. So let's see who's being taken as offer.
All depends in my opinion on F-15ID deal. If Indonesia still take that, then the money left will not be enough asside 209-1400. In the end money/budget availability talk more.
Perhaps they will relegate Sigma 10514 as Corvette. It is basically a Light Frigate, thus not in same size and capabilities with Arrowhead 140/FMP, PPA and FDI. I'm still not convince on FDI yet, more on abilities of Local Industry to work with it. They (local industry) will be full already with FMP (in PAL) and and potential next batches of PPA (in Noahtu). Thus unless new capacities added, no domestication for FDI can happen. Something that important politicaly with domestic circles.
Thanks. So for now it is more likely a SIGMA 10514 + Arrowhead 140 + PPA mixture.
x.com
Well that's what OPV 90 program is all about. I see that as part to revive national corvette program. Since Juwono Sudarsono time, it is plan to focus on corvette size vessels as back bone on Indonesian Navy patrol force. For that the small 40m and 60m vessels should be more on brown water operation and not green water.
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nasional.kompas.com
www.pal.co.id
Another confirmation on basic dimensions and weight of FMP, slightly bit bigger then Arrowhead 140 basic configuration.
kabar24.bisnis.com
On this matter, Keris FB also put snippet from Audit done to PAL DSME program by national audit agency.
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Thank you for sharing.TNI AL Dapat Hibah Kapal Korvet Bucheon 773 Bekas dari Korsel, Segini Biaya Perbaikannya
Kapal hibah korvet bekas dari Korsel, yaitu Patrol Combat Corvette (PCC) Bucheon 773 untuk TNI AL akan diperbaiki sebelum dikirim di Indonesia
The Parliament defense commission session has agree to accept grant from ROK one Pohang class corvette (Bucheon). This is part of ongoing cooperation with ROK. The Deputy Defense Minister also told Parliament session that Submarine deal before with DSME is not entirely satisfying conditions.
In the meeting Dpt Defense Minister talk the approval for grant actually are 3 program:
The grant actually before talk for 3 Corvette, but latter on become only 1 Corvette. Video below talk about the explanation.
- Indonesian grant to Cambodia special force of Pindad make Riffles and munitions,
- Brunai grant to Indonesian Navy of 2000+ munitions of Oto Melara 76mm gun,
- ROK grant to Indonesian Navy for one corvette.
As Video in Indonesian basically talk about 3 Corvette plan with budget around USD 105 mio for refurbishment. As the process become lengthy, the fund then being used as part of payment for FREMM frigate to Italian makers. Thus now as the deal only for 1 Corvette then the refurbishment budget being prepared one third of 105 mio or 35 mio USD.
This talk on budget being used as part of FREMM procurement, getting a lot of expectations from Indonesian enthusiasts that FREMM already being procure. However watching the video (other Indonesian members can see it and give opinion), my opinion is he's talking on PPA deal. As that the deal that being made with, and the way he said it, is the deal thar already being done. The budget for PPA deal (put it somewhere before in this thread) actually being writen as "procurement of Frigates on the similar types with FREMM".
This deal seems part of Submarine deal before, perhaps ROK only give one corvette not three, as Indonesia now so far only committed to 1 instead 2 batch of DSME 1400. The talk on not satisfying condition of 3 Submarine deal could be related to condition of the Submarine that need further adjustments. However it's in my opinion also related to condition of tech transfer agreement.
Either way this corvette deal also part of interim corvette, which I suspect related to time table OPV 90 programs or other potential corvette building programs. So if they are now taking this Pohang class as Interim corvette, will they also move further on plan Maestrale class as Interim Frigates?
Hopefully the second batch of Type 209/400 will not end up like the KF-X, just an endless story of indecision, hesitation, promises and delays.On this matter, Keris FB also put snippet from Audit done to PAL DSME program by national audit agency.
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Basically the audit results talk about:
1. Quality of the submarine that still has problem,
2. Question on contract terms,
3. Scope of Tech Transfer program to PAL.
This is what make MinDef and PAL decide to hold effective contract for Batch 2. This is also that results disagreement between PAL and DSME and also between Indonesian and ROK MinDef. However the contract already been signed for the 2nd Batch, thus whether to continue or not become something that being negotiate. Indonesia (PAL) wants ROK (DSME/Hanwha Ocean) reimburse modification payment on 1st Batch Submarine modifications. Also PAL wants renegotiation of job scope coverage on the program.
Either way, if they (PAL) decide not to continue the 2nd Batch, means some penalties has to be paid to DSME. Which going to be problematic politically on Indonesia and ROK defense partnership. Especially considering Indonesia also has problem with ROK on KF-21.
Which is for me, considering the situation on contract and budget availability, it is questionable whether Indonesia politically want to terminate 2nd batch contract entirely. I suspect it will also being calculate on overall other defense contract with ROK (as KF-21). Many Indonesian media and enthusiasts believe it is better to terminate 209-1400 contract with DSME or even 209-1400 entirely. Personally I'm not so sure Indonesia MinDef want to do that, considering costs both political, commercial and financial. Which is why I'm still believe the tactical submarine (as MinDef called) will still 209-1400.
It will be base mostly toward renegotiation deal with Hanwha Ocean (DSME) on the 2nd batch. Just like the future of Indonesia participation in KF-21 depends on renegotiation results on financial participation on development costs.
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