The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
I don't believe that Russia has destroyed all their stocks or laboratories able to producing chemical weapons. But true chemical weapons (not the tear gaz they dropped from quadcopters over Ukrainian trenches) is for them, like nukes: means of last resort. They don't want to make bad advertising by using them. Putin still wants to show that the Special War Operation is conventional and under control.
Color me suspicious in thinking the RU are holding back some Tabun/GB/whatever. However, they have disposed of the vast majority. Would they use arms that they claimed to have destroyed ? I would guess not, under the current conditions - too much international blowback.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
So, why aren't they shooting them down routinely?
IMHO, it's because they can't. Not because they don;t care, or because they don't want to escalate.
You have a very strange view of this. NATO and Russia recon aircraft of various types routinely fly over international waters in airspace that no country controls. This is normal. You normally aren't allowed to just shoot down those aircraft. This is not unusual and western aircraft routinely operate relatively close to Russian airspace. Many of these aircraft are slow and relatively easy targets, and there is nothing particularly difficult from a practical standpoint in shooting down something like an RQ-4B. A Russian Su-27 or anything from that family could relatively easily pull up to it, and simply knock it apart with cannon fire. A number of air to air missiles could also do the trick. This is clearly not a case of inability. As to not caring, the damage Ukraine has done to Russian forces using western ISR data is vast. While we don't have much direct evidence, it would be very strange if Russia didn't care. It's pretty clear they do, they knocked down an RQ-4B last year by dumping fuel on it, damaging it's propeller. In other words, they didn't even need to engage it with weapons. This leaves your last option as the only possible explanation. Up until now Russia has chosen not to escalate the confrontation with the west over Ukraine. The concern expressed by Kip Potapych is that now that western missiles are being used to strike Russia, they may be more willing to escalate. I understand that there are some who think war with Russia is either inevitable (something I think is completely untrue and frankly a willful selfdelusion) or desirable. But for everyone else, a war between Russia and NATO is seen as a bad thing for all involved. There are lot of major western cities in range of Russian tactical nukes. Russia of course would face an existential threat in a war with NATO, defeat could lead to the utter collapse of the current Russian Federation as a country. So both sides have much to lose. For people who take this view events that seem to bring countries closer to such a confrontation are seen as undesirable. Your view that Russia simply magically can't do anything is bizarre to say the least. There are things Russia can do and there are things the west can do to Russia. If things go down in the worst way, the death toll could be vast, and the destruction large scale and lasting. This is a valid concern. What direction events take remains to be seen, but these dangers are real and pretending otherwise is willful ignorance.

Yes and no. They can change their targets. But their means for a large attack, like dozens of missiles at one time, are limited. If they want to make a retaliation which will cause important damage, and have a potential political impact, to a NATO site or country, they will be forced to divert some capabilities from the Ukrainian theatre.
It really depends on what form the escalation takes and how it plays out. A confrontation with NATO can go along many different paths. For example using some Su-27s to intercept all NATO UAVs flying within 100kms of Russia and downing them wouldn't really divert resources from Ukraine. There are also accounts that suggest Russian missile arsenals are actually larger now then they were pre-war. I don't know what to make of this, it's certainly not impossible, but reliable information is hard to come by. It's possible that Russian strikes on Ukraine are limited not by their ability to get munitions, but by their ability to identify targets worth striking. I.e. the weakness is not supply of missiles, what everyone keeps talking about, but ISR. In other words there might be piles of missiles they could expend in a snowball fight with NATO, without necessarily detracting from their campaign in Ukraine.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Wondering how US politics will react if Putin send 300 km Cruise Missiles or SSM to Cuba. Just enough to cover Florida, especially Mar de Lago Country Club.
Sorry, but the shortest distance (air line) between Cuba and Fort-lauderdale is more than 463 km, so we need something better, like the 3M55 Oniks, Kh-65 or Iskander M. Or maybe long range balloons with propaganda material like the Koreans are doing from both sides.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
I just listened to the last episode of In Moscow’s Shadows by Mark Galeotti. I would recommend it to others, specifically 12 minutes, from 11:00 to 23:00, of the podcast, as related to my previous post in regard to escalation and whatnot:


Maybe I am not as crazy as it appears.

P. S. Anyone who has time and interest in the subject of Russia would benefit from following the guy’s podcasts (here), in my opinion. He has some excellent books on the subject as well and I believe I recommended at least one of them here previously - A Short History of Russia, which is short but still a great (and easy) read.

Edit: Re sabotage, France arrested a “Russian-Ukrainian” individual who appears to have exploded himself while building a bomb:

France's domestic intelligence agency has detained a 26-year-old Russian-Ukrainian man on suspicion of planning a violent act after he injured himself in an explosion, the National Anti-Terrorism Prosecutor's Office (PNAT) said on Wednesday, June 5.

The man was treated by a fire brigade on Monday evening "when he suffered serious burns following an explosion," said the prosecutors. "Products and materials intended to manufacture explosive devices" have been found at his hotel room, the PNAT said. "One of these devices had exploded," the prosecutors said.[…]



Other sources suggest the guy is originally from Donbas and fought on the pro-Russian side for some time.
 
Last edited:

Fredled

Active Member
Feanor said:
As to not caring, the damage Ukraine has done to Russian forces using western ISR data is vast. While we don't have much direct evidence, it would be very strange if Russia didn't care.
If they care and have the means to shoot them down, they should do it because they are at war. Either US drone are too far to pose a treath to Russuans or too far to be intercepted by Russiams. Shooting drones doesn't have any consequence. That they don't shoot US drones coming to spy them on behalf of Ukrainians because they are in over international waters doesn't make sens. But if they are over international waters, they are probably too far to spy on them.

Feanor said:
I understand that there are some who think war with Russia is either inevitable (something I think is completely untrue and frankly a willful selfdelusion) or desirable.
I don't remember a single politician, neither form the west nor from Russia or anywhere else, expressing the opinion that war between the two blocks was desirable or inevitable.
Some commentators say that NATO is drawing us slowly to WW3 but I don't think so.
There is a saying: "Ukraine must win but Russia cannot lose." Meaning we want Ukraine to win but without direct confrontation with Russia.

In Russia, state media don;t say that war is inevitable, they say that NATO is preparing to assault Russia in a few months (but never less than 6 months from the time they say that). And the Russian people believe it. Maybe the political leadership believe it too.
And because they believe that a major attack or even an invasion is almost imminent, that everything happening in Ukraine is only a preparation for that future agression on Russia, the use of our weapon to strike inside Russia is an extremely sensitive matter. It should be clearly within the context of the defence of Ukraine.

Feanor said:
Your view that Russia simply magically can't do anything is bizarre to say the least.
Not as bizarre as their threat to give long range missile to countries ... which are supplying Russia with these missules.
(IMO, there should be a lot of rolling eyes in western chancelleries.)

Feanor said:
For example using some Su-27s to intercept all NATO UAVs flying within 100kms of Russia and downing them wouldn't really divert resources from Ukraine.
Yes, but that wouldn't be understood as a retaliation. It's too insignificant.

Feanor said:
There are also accounts that suggest Russian missile arsenals are actually larger now then they were pre-war. I don't know what to make of this, it's certainly not impossible, but reliable information is hard to come by. It's possible that Russian strikes on Ukraine are limited not by their ability to get munitions, but by their ability to identify targets worth striking.
They certainly keep a few hundreds of missiles as a strategic reserve because their military doctrine tell them to be prepared for an all-out assault by NATO. And they could use these stocks to strike NATO if they think that the say assault is imminent according to the recent developments in Ukraine. But in their mind, it would mean that WW3 has started, Not that that they retaliated for a decision by western leaders.

Russians may not know what to strike anymore in Ukraine. But they strike nonetheless.

Ananda said:
Wondering how US politics will react if Putin send 300 km Cruise Missiles or SSM to Cuba.
Yes but Putin talked of countries or tribes that would strike US interrests. Cuba would not strike the US or US assets.

But the Mar e-Lago being within range is a good point.

KipPotapych said:
France arrested a “Russian-Ukrainian” individual who appears to have exploded himself while building a bomb
I read that he just burned himself. IMO not a professional.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
This article states the sale of these aircraft to Ukraine with training and will match the numbers of f-16,s given?
.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
This has been ongoing for a long time now. Last September Ukraine rejected these aircraft as obsolete for their purpose:

In the spokesperson's opinion, transferring Mirage 2000 aircraft would not be a rational decision, and mastering them would only drain Ukraine's aviation resources.

"Therefore, we cannot afford to take everything from the aviation inventory today. It's not rational. It will simply exhaust our personnel. We need to focus on one, at most, two types of multi-role aircraft capable of performing the tasks I mentioned. Mirage 2000 is an outdated model, and France has much better aircraft, as does Europe. So, we are considering the aircraft we have been talking about," Ignat emphasized.



It was also discussed by experts for about a year now as well. Justin Bronk of RUSI posted his opinion on Twitter when the news broke out :



He also replied to some Twitter “experts”:










 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
This article states the sale of these aircraft to Ukraine with training and will match the numbers of f-16,s given?
.
Are they actually selling them to Ukraine? That would be pretty funny.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
The most advance Mirage 2K with the most parts and weapons available actually not in French. However in Gulf, and so far neither Qatar and UAE want to donate them to Ukrainian. French already being talk try to buy back and supply them to Ukrainian. However the price and Qatar and UAE demand seems not what French wants.

Both Qatar and UAE want to rexport those Mirage 2K with their substantial spare parts supporting them to other nation (that willing to pay good money). Seems French giving up on that for the sake Rafale deal to both Gulf Kingdom. Thus they have no choice to giving up their own Mirage 2K inventory, if they still want to pursue Macron administration wants.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Kharkov front.

Russian forces here are now firmly stalled, and the battle has turned into a meatgrinder. Note Russia is able to destroy many Ukrainian vehicles, but the casualty ratio is unclear and may be unfavorable. Note Russia is still definitely trying to attack inside Volchansk.


Russia's destruction of Ukrainian vehicles on this front continues. I suspect a combination of mass use of loitering munitions coupled with the Ukrainian reinforcements moving into the area are contributing to the losses. We have 1 destroyed P-18ML radar, 3 Osa-AKM SAMs, 1 Biber or MTU-72 bridgelayer, 2 T-72s, 2 Strykers (1 hit while on a mechanized bridge crossing, the other alleged, hard to make out), 1 Buk-M1 (maybe FrankenSAM), 1 alleged ARV (type unclear), 1 alleged D-30 (some sort of artillery piece but unclear, might be a decoy) 1 supply truck carrying something very explosive, and 1 trailer with two armored cars on it.


Russian forces hit something, allegedly a PzH-2000, but we can't really make it out.


Damage to a bridge near Liptsi from a Russian airstrike and the last bridge across the Volchya gets hit.


Russian 2S34 Mal'va in action. The Mal'va itself is not particularly impressive. It's essentially a Msta-B with some improvements, and on a giant wheeled chassis. To me it seems inferior to a Msta-S (2S19M2) which was Russia was purchasing at the rate of 2 btlns per year pre-war (36 cannons). Production of the Msta-SM was ongoing at least until the second half of last year, and is likely still continuing. Note the type was allegedly handed over last year and has been in use for some time since then. The fact that it was kept under warps until a Ukrainian source showed it raises questions. The first Koalitsiya-SV 2S35s were supposedly delivered in February. Might they be also in action but just kept off camera?


We've gotten some of this already, but for recordkeeping, here's material on a Russian S-300/400 battery getting hit. 2 radars, 2 TELs, and 4 support vehicles were hit. The radars are the significant part.


Ukrainian HIMARS launches towards Belgorod region. Note the scattered dragon's teeth, these launches are likely relatively close to the front line.


Ukrainian T-72B3 in Kharkov.


Russian Tor-M1-2U part of battlegroup north.


The flow of Ukrainian POWs seems to be tapering off. Just two this round.


Russian troop trains for battlegroup north continue to be sighted. Now we have an UR-77 and T-72B3 mod'23s. We still don't see much of this armor actively engaged.


Russia hit a Novaya Pochta storage facility near Borovaya, Kharkov region.


A mass Shahed strike against Ukrainian military storage in Chuguev is reported.


Ukrainian shelling of Belgorod region continues. Notable targest in this case include a market in Shebekino and residential high-rises.


HIMARS fragments found in Belgorod region.


Ukrainian FPV drone attacks on civilian targets in Belgorod region continue. Most prominently we have a bus belonging to a local agro-industrial enterprise. The bus was reportedly empty, with only the driver inside who is concussed. Other agricultural vehicles were reportedly attacked without casualties.


Russian agricultural tractors with anti-drone netting, and ambulance workers with body armor, Belgorod region.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Oskol front.

Russian forces continue to make gains around the Ivanovka area, the 47th Tanks Div is involved. Russian forces are also pushing south of this bulge, towards Stel'makhovka, and Myasozharovka (a truly wonderful name). There are also some failed Russian attacks southward out of Berestovoe.


There are reports of a failed Ukrainian counter-attack in Ivanovka, that resulted from command being either severely misinformed or openly lying to their troops.


Russia hits another 2 bridges near Kupyansk. Note one is an improvised bridge constructed due to other bridges being hit. While knocking out bridges certainly has an impact, unless it's done to multiple crossings and directly preceedes an offensive, the utility is limited. On the flip side Russia is definitely pushing around the Tabaevka area, so perhaps these strikes are meant to support that effort.


Ukrainian T-72B3 mod'16 hit near Kupyansk.


Russian strikes against alleged Ukrainian military storage near Kupyansk.


Seversk salient.

Russian forces have advanced northward near the village of Sacco and Vanzetti, in an attempt to envelop Razdolvoka from the west, but the gains are very modest. In the south-east side Russian forces have failed to hold recently captured positions north of Veseloe, but are continuing their advance along the highground and railroad towards Vyemka.


Russian ODAB-1500 strikes in Seversk. Allegedly a staging area of Ukraine's 54th Bde.


Chasov Yar.

In Chasov Yar Russian forces have made it to the canal crossing in Kalinina. Russian forces also hold one treeline north of the village, but Ukrainian forces are still in the warehouses north of there, on the highground.


A Russian drone catches a Ukrainian infantry squad dismounting from their armored car, and drops grenades on them.


Ukrainian MaxxPro MRAP dodging artillery fire as it drives on a road in Chasov Yar, passing by other wrecked vehicles. I believe this is the road to the Canal neighborhood.


Ukrainian T-80BV loses it's turret near Chasov Yar.


The 11th Para-Assault continues to operate their Japanese Humvee lookalike with a ZU-23-2 near Chasov Yar.


Ocheretino-Netaylovo area.

Russian forces have pushed into the outskirts of Novoaleksandrovka west of Ocheretino, and are reportedly contesting the outskirts of Sokol, south-west of Ocheretino. Russian forces are also advancing in the space between Solovievo and Umanskoe.


West of Netaylovo Russian forces have reached the water reservoir, and have taken the eastern outskirts of Karlovka, the next village. Advancing into Karlovka itself may prove difficult, especially with an unsecured southern flank.


Ukrainian infantry falling back west of Sokol.


Russian FPV drone from Sparta btln hits a Ukrainian T-80BV near Yasnobrodovka.


Ukrainian M88 towing a knocked out Bradley, gets hit by a Russian FPV drone. Results unclear.


A Ukrainian Bradley burns on the outskirts of Sokol village, another destroyed in the general vicinity of Avdeevka, the crew bails out.


Another M1 Abrams getting hit near Avdeevka. By recent counts Ukraine has now lost as many as 14 of it's M1s.


Ukrainian BMP-2 getting hit.


Ukrainian Dozor-B/Oncilla getting hit near Netaylovo. Note the EW that kills the signal, but the drone still lands.


Russian drones hunting Ukrainian infantry near Avdeevka.


Some footage of the ruins of Avdeevka.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Krasnogorovka.

Russian mechanized assault element approaching the high-rises in Krasnogorovka.


Novomihailovka-Ugledar.


Russian forces have taken most or all of Paraskovievka. It's a bit unclear, though we do have a flag raising. Russian forces have also made gains south of Pobeda, and north and south of Novomihailovka. From the south-east Russian forces are now very close to Konstantinovka, but there is another salient advancing towards the Konstantinovka-Ugledar road. It appears Russia itends to try and cut that road by simultaneously attacking Konstatinovka itself, and advancing south of the village to the road.


Ukrainian T-64 getting hit near Ugledar. The tank catches fire.


Russian T-72AV of the 155th MarBde near Novomihailovka.


Zaporozhye.

Russian gains in the Rabotino salient continue. Russian forces have also inched forward east and west of the Rabotino salient.


North-east of the Rabotino salient a large chunk of territory that up until now was thought under Russian control appears to be under Ukrainian control. This is a relatively quiet section of the front, and there are no villages there, so it's unclear when/if this changed.


Russian forces continue to gain ground inside Staromayorskoe.


3 Russian gliding bombs hit a facility with engineer vehicles and construction materials in Gulyaypole, Zaporozhye. Note one of the bombs misses by a good amount, while the other 2 are on target.


Russian quadcopter grenade drops in support of efforts in Staromayorskoe.


Russian motorcycles with anti-drone cages used around Rabotino.


Strikes.


Russia hit the Epicenter construction materials shopping center in Kherson. The shopping center is allegedly closed, and makes in principle a good place for staging troops and munitions.


Russian strikes landing in Kiev, targets unclear.


Russian Iskander strike against Izyum, allegedly targetting a staging area of Ukraine's 95th Para-Assault Bde.


In Slavyansk Russia hit the Shinok cafe. It's unclear what they were targeting.


Russia hit two hangars at the airfield in Nikolaev. Unclear if anything was inside. At the Starokonstantinov airbase Russia hit an aircraft shelter, and some storage facilties.


Russian air defenses firing in Novorossiysk during a recent Ukrainian attack.


Ukraine hit the Novoshahtinskiy oil refinery in Russia. Reportedly Ukraine tried to double tap the rescue workers, no details on the results.


Ukraine also hit the oil refinery in Taman'.


Ukraine also reportedly hit a fuel storage facility in Belgorod and Krasnodar regions.


Ukraine caught out a Russian military truck column across from Sumy in Kursk region, a scarce few kms from the border. Why Russia would run such a column in such a location is unclear.


Ukrainian umanned boat hits a Russian tugboat in Lake Panskoe, western short of Crimea.


Up close footage of damage to the Avangard ferry in Kerch, Crimea.


Other interesting bits.


Ukraine using their AMX-10RCs as improvised artillery, Kherson region. These vehicles were used early in the summer offensive on the Vremyevskiy bulge where their lackluster performance led to losses, including at least one relatively intact vehicle captured by Russia.


A destroyed M777 decoy, location unclear.


An interesting detail, a Russian anti-drone picket soldier, who protects tanks from FPV drones. It appears he covers positions where the tanks are firing from.


Russia is recruiting for a volunteer air defense btln to serve domestically. The unit will be based in Tatarstan. Advertised salaries are comparable to frontline infantry, making this an attractive opportunity in principle.


An interesting shot of a Russian air defense tower with it's Pantsyr-S1.


African soldiers continue to be sighted in Russian service.


A scarce BMPT somewhere near the front, well concealed.


A Russian FPV drone carrying a packet of mines from an Uragan submunition, and the same in action.


Russia is testing a new unmanned mineclearing vehicle in the warzone. It seems to be meant for rear areas, to clean up minefields.


The evolution of Russian tank sheds continues. Now it's a cage-shed.


Russian soldiers show off a Grom cannon from a BMP-1 on a towed chassis from a 2B9. This takes it full circle, since the Grom was initially an infantry field gun.


Ukraine's 79th Para-Assault Bde shows off their Strela-10M3 with a Wally visor upgrade, and Ukraine's 57th Motorized Bde with their Czech-supplied older Strela-10M2D/IFFs.


Ukraine's 93rd Mech training with captured T-80U and BVM tanks.


Japan is reportedly going to deliver 101 vehicles including Morooka PC-065B, Toyota HMV and Mitsubishi type 73.


First sighting if Cheetah Gepard variants from the Netherlands now in Ukraine.


Ukrainain Bogdana with anti-drone cages.


Ukrainian air defense teams with Viktor-MR2s.


An M1 shows up with ERA on the front of the turret too. One with ARAT and one with what looks like K-1.


Another POW exchange took place, this one 75 for 75.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If they care and have the means to shoot them down, they should do it because they are at war. Either US drone are too far to pose a treath to Russuans or too far to be intercepted by Russiams. Shooting drones doesn't have any consequence. That they don't shoot US drones coming to spy them on behalf of Ukrainians because they are in over international waters doesn't make sens. But if they are over international waters, they are probably too far to spy on them.

You are simply wrong. The US and Russia are not at war and it would be a significant and risky escalation for Russia to shoot down US UAVs over international waters. And they are not too far to "spy" on Russia.

I don't remember a single politician, neither form the west nor from Russia or anywhere else, expressing the opinion that war between the two blocks was desirable or inevitable.
Some commentators say that NATO is drawing us slowly to WW3 but I don't think so.
There is a saying: "Ukraine must win but Russia cannot lose." Meaning we want Ukraine to win but without direct confrontation with Russia.
Politicians rarely say what they mean, and I don't generally follow politicians. It's an opinion I've encountered from regular people.

In Russia, state media don;t say that war is inevitable, they say that NATO is preparing to assault Russia in a few months (but never less than 6 months from the time they say that). And the Russian people believe it. Maybe the political leadership believe it too.
And because they believe that a major attack or even an invasion is almost imminent, that everything happening in Ukraine is only a preparation for that future agression on Russia, the use of our weapon to strike inside Russia is an extremely sensitive matter. It should be clearly within the context of the defence of Ukraine.
Russian political leadership is certainly stoking fears of NATO aggression against Russia.

Not as bizarre as their threat to give long range missile to countries ... which are supplying Russia with these missules.
(IMO, there should be a lot of rolling eyes in western chancelleries.)
What? Russia threatened to supply long range munitions to other countries. We're talking about someone like Iran or North Korea getting Russian missile tech, but in general it could also mean doing things like selling Venezuela Kh-101/102s. It could mean proliferation of Russian hypersonic tech to other countries. If you don't see the significance, consider what response it might require from western countries to effectively defend against that.

Yes, but that wouldn't be understood as a retaliation. It's too insignificant.
That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I would see it as a dangerous escalation by Russia and a retaliation.

They certainly keep a few hundreds of missiles as a strategic reserve because their military doctrine tell them to be prepared for an all-out assault by NATO. And they could use these stocks to strike NATO if they think that the say assault is imminent according to the recent developments in Ukraine. But in their mind, it would mean that WW3 has started, Not that that they retaliated for a decision by western leaders.
I think the thing to worry about is not Russian leadership acting because they think they are strong, but them acting because they are scared. That's when tactical nukes could get reached for.

Russians may not know what to strike anymore in Ukraine. But they strike nonetheless.
Are you missing my point?

Yes but Putin talked of countries or tribes that would strike US interrests. Cuba would not strike the US or US assets.
No. Not out of the blue. But the US would have to invest in something to be able to respond to that. This is the point.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
I read that he just burned himself. IMO not a professional.
Of course it wouldn’t be a professional. Imagine how long it would take for a group of professionals to get to where the incident had happened. It is probably about 3,000 kilometres from the Russian border, give or take. Walking that distance on foot, through the forests of Europe, including Eastern Europe during the early mushroom season… That would be a hell of a task to get there undedected! And one unlikely to be accomplished, to be honest, especially within a reasonable timeframe. So they have to resort to something other than using professionals.

Ok, I am laughing here. I was referring to this old “gem”:


The obituary begins with (via Google translate):

To destroy Russian bombers, Ukrainian scouts walked more than 600 kilometres on enemy territory.
Seriously though, it wouldn’t be “professionals” in most such cases. It would be people like described in the article, Russian supporters among the local population - don’t even have to be “supporters” per se, but simply folk unhappy with the political situation, government’s priorities, such as fringe supporters of the political parties that nowadays call themselves “centre-right” - devoted twitter and facebook users, and so on. Anyone willing and the more the merrier, really. Some will burn themselves, some will burn something. Then there are elements of straight up terror. This is just common sense, no?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Of course it wouldn’t be a professional. Imagine how long it would take for a group of professionals to get to where the incident had happened. It is probably about 3,000 kilometres from the Russian border, give or take. Walking that distance on foot, through the forests of Europe, including Eastern Europe during the early mushroom season… That would be a hell of a task to get there undedected! And one unlikely to be accomplished, to be honest, especially within a reasonable timeframe. So they have to resort to something other than using professionals.
They would come in with diplomatic passports... come on. Read Suvorov's Aquarium.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
An exciting head-on engagement west of Avdeevka, I believe near Sokol. A Bradley and a BTR-82A close at full speeds firing at each other. Both reportedly survived this encounter, the BTR-82A was damaged, and the Bradley shortly thereafter hit a land mine and was finished off by artillery, it's accounted for as one of the destroyed Bradley's in my last post. It's a very interesting video, since encounters of this time are very rare, both vehicles apparently scored hits on one another, and neither was destroyed even by such close range fires. Russia reports a couple of casualties from the encounter, including dead and wounded (so presumably one of each). Note the BTR is carrying dismounts so the losses might not be the crew. The video was allegedly from a Ukrainian UAV.

Russian source report that the dismounts entered Sokol, and this fight is on it's eastern outskirts. The Bradley appears to be one of a pair that Ukrainian sources doing a counter-attack.

 
Top