Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[iambuzzard]

Very true, we need all of our best and brightest going forward, if we are excluding, or worse, breaking people because they don't conform to arbitrary requirements, we are hurting ourselves.

I am going way off topic but to use the veterans as an example, not because I'm equating combat service with anything else, but rather I am looking at the effect of stress and trauma on a group of psychologically vetted and screaned individuals. There is damage service and service conditions has done to so many, but look at the manifestation of the damage. It is not dissimilar to what is seen in kids who are diagnosed with different types of neuro diversity, or have suffered abuse.

Much of the anxiety, shyness, aggression, violence and other behaviours associated with autism are also common responses to trauma. There are behaviours that are now seen as unacceptable to subject service personnel to that some people still believe is appropriate to use on children who have difficulty conforming.

Learn to mask your differences and conform before we let you do anything else. If you can't conform you can't get in, if you are already here, we will make you leave, we will break you if necessary.

It is very much an economic issue because many of our best and brightest are being systematically excluded from the areas we, as a nation, need them to be taking the lead in.

Thank you, Volks.
You are a beacon of light in the darkness. Common sense is so rare these days.

 

[Volkodav]

Thank you, Volks.
You are a beacon of light in the darkness. Common sense is so rare these days.

Lived experience.

My son was diagnosed in year 2, I went off to learn everything I could and came away with the realisation that I and a third or more of my family were on the spectrum.

There's a community of autistic professionals on linkedin I follow, most of them late diagnosed. It's really interesting listening to their experiences on coming out and how they were treated afterwards.

Really bright capable people with many achievements who encountered at best benevolent ableism, but often outright discrimination. They already had the runs on the board but where still treated as if they were idiots once they had the label of autistic.

I've become quite adept at picking autistic people in the workplace, I won't ever out them, but I can tell. Some of them will make it to the highest levels if no one notices their differences and remain focused on their achievements.

We need more like them, we need them more than we need the narcascistic bullies, the fakers, the confident morons, that we so often see.

I'm old but fighting the good fight for the next generation.

 

[devo99]

What recent Navantia landing craft successes? LMV-M is a Birdon design to be built by Austal.

Sorry I think I blacked out on that one, not enough sleep lately. Disregard.
Nevertheless, has there been no updates on JSS since last year?

 

[iambuzzard]

Lived experience.

My son was diagnosed in year 2, I went off to learn everything I could and came away with the realisation that I and a third or more of my family were on the spectrum.

There's a community of autistic professionals on linkedin I follow, most of them late diagnosed. It's really interesting listening to their experiences on coming out and how they were treated afterwards.

Really bright capable people with many achievements who encountered at best benevolent ableism, but often outright discrimination. They already had the runs on the board but where still treated as if they were idiots once they had the label of autistic.

I've become quite adept at picking autistic people in the workplace, I won't ever out them, but I can tell. Some of them will make it to the highest levels if no one notices their differences and remain focused on their achievements.

We need more like them, we need them more than we need the narcascistic bullies, the fakers, the confident morons, that we so often see.

I'm old but fighting the good fight for the next generation.

Thank you.

 

[Redlands18]

Sorry I think I blacked out on that one, not enough sleep lately. Disregard.
Nevertheless, has there been no updates on JSS since last year?

The JSS project hasn't started yet and is probably subject to review under the current Naval review. While there has been a lot of comment on the future Frigate/OPV/possible Corvette fleet and an announcement on the LMV fleet, there has been nothing on either the JSS project or the future MCMV/Hydro fleets. I think we need to wait for Mar-April to see if the JSS plan has even survived or in what form a Choules replacement will be.

 

[hauritz]

The JSS project hasn't started yet and is probably subject to review under the current Naval review. While there has been a lot of comment on the future Frigate/OPV/possible Corvette fleet and an announcement on the LMV fleet, there has been nothing on either the JSS project or the future MCMV/Hydro fleets. I think we need to wait for Mar-April to see if the JSS plan has even survived or in what form a Choules replacement will be.

It sounds like the naval review will be a clean sheet. I wouldn’t assume any project is safe. Even established projects seem to be subject to cancellation or cutback. That nothing has been said about the JSS doesn’t augur well for the project. With the changing role of the army there will need to be a reassessment of projects like the JSS.

 

[Redlands18]

US requests Australia send warship to Red Sea to guard against Houthi rebels - ABC News
It appears Australia has been asked by the US to provide a warship to join a coalition in the Red Sea to counter the rising number of attacks against International shipping in the region.

 

[DDG38]

Australia considers US request to send warship to Red Sea as Houthis target shipping lanes
Given the displayed capabilities of the Houthis this seems like a job for the DDGs to me.

 

[spoz]

Lived experience.

My son was diagnosed in year 2, I went off to learn everything I could and came away with the realisation that I and a third or more of my family were on the spectrum.

There's a community of autistic professionals on linkedin I follow, most of them late diagnosed. It's really interesting listening to their experiences on coming out and how they were treated afterwards.

Really bright capable people with many achievements who encountered at best benevolent ableism, but often outright discrimination. They already had the runs on the board but where still treated as if they were idiots once they had the label of autistic.

I've become quite adept at picking autistic people in the workplace, I won't ever out them, but I can tell. Some of them will make it to the highest levels if no one notices their differences and remain focused on their achievements.

We need more like them, we need them more than we need the narcascistic bullies, the fakers, the confident morons, that we so often see.

I'm old but fighting the good fight for the next generation.

My grandson is diagnosed as on the spectrum, but is doing very well in the cyber security space.

When he was diagnosed, I had myself tested and, surprise, surprise so am I. As, I suspect, would be a very large number of officers in technical fields in the Services, and many high achievers in a variety of fields where personal interactions are less important than technical or intellectual abilities.

In my day there was, of course, no such thing as autism, at least in the general consciousness - we were just described as driven, or highly focussed, and lacking to some degree in social skills or as socially inept.

 

[spoz]

Australia considers US request to send warship to Red Sea as Houthis target shipping lanes
Given the displayed capabilities of the Houthis this seems like a job for the DDGs to me.

Yes, and with a full load out.

 

[Volkodav]

My grandson is diagnosed as on the spectrum, but is doing very well in the cyber security space.

When he was diagnosed, I had myself tested and, surprise, surprise so am I. As, I suspect, would be a very large number of officers in technical fields in the Services, and many high achievers in a variety of fields where personal interactions are less important than technical or intellectual abilities.

In my day there was, of course, no such thing as autism, at least in the general consciousness - we were just described as driven, or highly focussed, and lacking to some degree in social skills or as socially inept.

I was horrified to discover recently that senior roles in DST require the candidates to present PowerPoint plans on how they are going lead the team and achieve results.

They now require the leadership of our top scientists to be marketing managers. WTF.

We have seen the result of self marketers and political players becoming department heads. Robodebt and Home Affairs come to mind.

I fear we are in-between at the moment, neuro diverse individuals used to be able to make it on talent and grit, now they are pathologiesed and excluded. Instead we have self marketing twits rising through the ranks ahead of technically competent people.

Now we are legally required to be diverse and accept and accomodate physical disability, race, gender and LGBTQIA, but only so long as they conform neurologically. Anyone can be accepted and advanced, so long as they conform to a rigid neurotype appoximating a self marketing, narscasistic bully of questionable morals and intellect.

 

[swerve]

Government needs to be careful on the NDIS side of things, in that they need to look at the cost benefit.

Prior to NDIS a very large number of people were pretty much excluded from society because of the social model of disability, that is, because they were excluded from society because of the lack of accommodation of their differences, they became a burden on society.

A kid who is bullied out of school doesn't get an education or a job etc. an adult who is excluded from work doesn't pay tax. A person who needs care, and doesn't have access to appropriate housing, ends up in a hospital or nursing home at much greater expense.

Now the other side of the equation, we constantly rant about shortages of scientists, engineers, technicians and skilled trades, don't forget other types of skilled practicioners and professionals. Well guess what, a great many of these people were are short of suffer from anxiety, are autistic, ADHD/AHD etc.

Ever heard the saying "how do you tell an extroverted engineer? They look at your shoes instead of their own".

What's the difference between a successful autistic scientist, engineer, technician or skilled trade and a shy smart kid who never made it through school? Answer, adequate and appropriate accommodation and support. Looking at many of the MEOs, WEOs, defence scientists and engineers I've known I can tell you now, they weren't usually the confident jocks in the school yards.

My wife has a lot of professional experience & relevant qualifications in the field of autism. Some time after we met (but before we married), she gave me a copy of the autism assessment manual used by the NHS (& which she was using in one of her jobs at the time) & suggested I go through it. I was a bit resistant to the idea, but did it. I was convinced. I fitted the criteria. It explained quite a lot.

So, no formal diagnosis, but an expert who thinks I qualify, & self-assessment which matches her opinion. After that we got married. Coming up to 23 years together now . . .

I had a career in IT, & now do proofreading & editing of translations part time for a little pension supplement & to keep my brain active. Biggest professional failure was when a manager forced me into managing a project despite my pleas not to be given the post. Not in the range of things I could ever be good at. I did a bloody good job of all the test planning after I was replaced as project leader, though. Even that idiot manager said so. Fuck knows why he sounded surprised: it was exactly the sort of thing I've always been good at.

That's the accommodation I've needed: being allowed to do what I'm good at & not expected to do things I'm crap at, such as managing people. And not asked to sell myself.

 

[icelord]

The JSS project hasn't started yet and is probably subject to review under the current Naval review. While there has been a lot of comment on the future Frigate/OPV/possible Corvette fleet and an announcement on the LMV fleet, there has been nothing on either the JSS project or the future MCMV/Hydro fleets. I think we need to wait for Mar-April to see if the JSS plan has even survived or in what form a Choules replacement will be.

Part of the wait is on the WA Dry Dock. Once completed and operational this will be where JSS is constructed.

Logic would dictate deciding on the ship and reduce design risks before the docks complete but i used a bad word to start this sentence.

 

[Volkodav]

My wife has a lot of professional experience & relevant qualifications in the field of autism. Some time after we met (but before we married), she gave me a copy of the autism assessment manual used by the NHS (& which she was using in one of her jobs at the time) & suggested I go through it. I was a bit resistant to the idea, but did it. I was convinced. I fitted the criteria. It explained quite a lot.

So, no formal diagnosis, but an expert who thinks I qualify, & self-assessment which matches her opinion. After that we got married. Coming up to 23 years together now . . .

I had a career in IT, & now do proofreading & editing of translations part time for a little pension supplement & to keep my brain active. Biggest professional failure was when a manager forced me into managing a project despite my pleas not to be given the post. Not in the range of things I could ever be good at. I did a bloody good job of all the test planning after I was replaced as project leader, though. Even that idiot manager said so. Fuck knows why he sounded surprised: it was exactly the sort of thing I've always been good at.

That's the accommodation I've needed: being allowed to do what I'm good at & not expected to do things I'm crap at, such as managing people. And not asked to sell myself.

Unfortunately what happens these days is you are not allowed to play to your strengths, you have to conform and are employed to the lowest of your skills.

It's ok for linea types who's skill sets are fairly consistent, but it sucks for the neuro diverse who often have very spike cognitive profiles, literally superior in most areas, genius is a couple and average in a few. You get classified as your lowest common denominator, your weakest trait.

That's ok for someone whose intellect is within a single deviation but sucks for someone who is off the charts in areas but measured by their weakest trait where they are just average. It means the mediocre are often advanced over the exceptional and fail to listen to wiser heads because they are subordinate to them.

This in a nutshell is why there are so many blatantly dumb decisions made, the decisions are made by medicore minds who don't rate or listen to smarter people because they are told, and believe they superior, smarter than those they are advanced over.

We need to move away from this MBA, self marketing BS and start letting the weird, quirky and different, play to their strengths, recognising and paying them accordingly. When you hear everything to the lowest common denominator you miss out on the exceptional qualities of the highest outliers.

 

[iambuzzard]

Unfortunately what happens these days is you are not allowed to play to your strengths, you have to conform and are employed to the lowest of your skills.

It's ok for linea types who's skill sets are fairly consistent, but it sucks for the neuro diverse who often have very spike cognitive profiles, literally superior in most areas, genius is a couple and average in a few. You get classified as your lowest common denominator, your weakest trait.

That's ok for someone whose intellect is within a single deviation but sucks for someone who is off the charts in areas but measured by their weakest trait where they are just average. It means the mediocre are often advanced over the exceptional and fail to listen to wiser heads because they are subordinate to them.

This in a nutshell is why there are so many blatantly dumb decisions made, the decisions are made by medicore minds who don't rate or listen to smarter people because they are told, and believe they superior, smarter than those they are advanced over.

We need to move away from this MBA, self marketing BS and start letting the weird, quirky and different, play to their strengths, recognising and paying them accordingly. When you hear everything to the lowest common denominator you miss out on the exceptional qualities of the highest outliers.

The Barnes Wallis types of our era don't get a foot in the door. Inventiveness is gone, replaced by mediocre.

 

[hauritz]

Australia considers US request to send warship to Red Sea as Houthis target shipping lanes
Given the displayed capabilities of the Houthis this seems like a job for the DDGs to me.

It does require DDGs and that does raise some issues in my mind. If DDGs are required for engagements involving relatively low tech rebel groups such as the Houthis then why are we even considering tier 2 warships? The Chinese are capable of blackening the sky with sophisticated anti-ship missiles and we are considering a new class of relatively lightly armed corvettes that we probably wouldn't be willing to risk against the Houthis.

 

[StingrayOZ]

How do we upgrade Hobart's or operate lhds if we have a destroyer continuously deployed? Possibly for years.

Big questions.. a big ask.

 

[icelord]

How do we upgrade Hobart's or operate lhds if we have a destroyer continuously deployed? Possibly for years.

Big questions.. a big ask.

We can rotate our most capable vessel in the red sea, just need to use USN refueller to get the Capes from Darwin to Yemen

 

[DDG38]

It does require DDGs and that does raise some issues in my mind. If DDGs are required for engagements involving relatively low tech rebel groups such as the Houthis then why are we even considering tier 2 warships? The Chinese are capable of blackening the sky with sophisticated anti-ship missiles and we are considering a new class of relatively lightly armed corvettes that we probably wouldn't be willing to risk against the Houthis.

"relatively low tech rebel groups" ? It's a mistake to make that assessment on a group being armed by Iran, I suggest you have a read of this article on their capabilities, this is not some raggedy group of yahoos waving AK-47s in the air. Hence the requirement for a platform that has a decent VLS magazine and sensor suite, which is not an FFH. Corvettes would never be considered for a long rage blue water mission so shouldn't be included in the discussion.

 

[Stampede]

How do we upgrade Hobart's or operate lhds if we have a destroyer continuously deployed? Possibly for years.

Big questions.. a big ask.

I feel this request to contribute to the security of the Red Sea against the Houthis is a very interesting challenge for the RAN.

What is the minimum weapon / sensor fitout to take on such a challenge working on the assumption the vessel is apart of a coalition with other sea and air asserts.

I think it is a very pertinate question for our own region going forward.
Is the default response to every contingency a major warship?

Chief of Navy has said what a Tier one and two vessel looks like and they are currently in service in the form of the ANZAC and Hobart Classes. No doubt like sized ships will compliment and replace these vessels down the track.

Will these be our go to for everything?

I can envisage many scenarios in South East Asia and the Pacific going forward where we may be required to lend assistance.
The threat may not be at the level of hostile ASMs , but certainly more than what a 50 cal equipped patrol boat could deal with and most likely the ability to operate and provide persistence some considerable distance from or shoreline.

Again what are our options?
What are our future options?

Looking at you Naval Review

Cheers S