Hamas-Israeli War 2023

Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Prominent opposition figure and former PM Yair Lapid writes about the grand plan for the day after the war (in Gaza). He says Israel does not have one, that it's not sexy, but it's necessary.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730903907658788879

Phase 1:
  1. Israel's high goals: Return of all captives and identifying all missing persons, eradication of Hamas in Gaza, and restoring a sense of security to border regions.
  2. Israel, together with the US and international community, shall financially strangle Hamas and their associates.
  3. Israel shall act persistently to eliminate the heads of Hamas wherever they are.
  4. Unlike past rounds, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, Israel shall not accept a permanent ceasefire until it achieves its high goals.
  5. Israel shall accept time-limited humanitarian pauses and manage an intensity-variable campaign until it achieves its goals.
  6. Israel shall create in the north and east of the Gaza strip a demilitarized zone for the defense of its bordering cities, in which Gazan access will be restricted via firepower. The encirclement of Gaza shall include the Philadelphi line (current border between Gaza-Egypt, meaning Egypt will no longer control Rafah).
  7. Gaza's demilitarization is an essential condition for the road ahead. The IDF shall continue entering Gaza according to Israel's security needs to prevent Hamas's attempt to seize power again.
  8. Israel shall not allow Hamas and its direct and indirect associates a civilian government of Gaza.
  9. The civilian government of Gaza shall initially and temporarily be entrusted to an international team led by the US and with Arab participation (except Turkey and Qatar), as well as local entities that are not identified with Hamas. This team shall deal with the management, restoration, and humanitarian assistance to the people of Gaza, and shall construct an organization to replace UNRWA.
  10. All PR bodies shall be concentrated under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that will manage a national effort that will mainly focus on American opinion.
  11. Israel shall gradually shift to handling the northern situation (Hezbollah), there it will act to implement UNSC Resolution 1701 and for the removal of Hezbollah from the northern border (i.e. southern Lebanon, south of the Litani river). If the political effort will not succees, Israel shall act with military force to remove Hezbollah from the border.

Phase 2:
  1. Israel shall play a central role in the building of a regional security architecture and international coalition vs Iran.
  2. Israel shall reject Palestinian Authority (PA) participation in governing Gaza until it implements a sweeping de-radicalization program, that will include education against incitement, cessation of payment to terrorist (pay per slay program), and combating corruption.
  3. Israel shall strive toward a normalization and deepening of security and economical ties with Saudi Arabia.
  4. Israel shall initiate a regional forum for the discussion of the Iranian threat and expansion of the Abraham Accords - in the Negev Forum format - to which the PA shall be invited (subject to implementation of the above mentioned reforms).
  5. This forum shall set the permanent civilian government regime of Gaza.
  6. Israel shall return to its pledge for a political solution (for the Palestinians) but will set it as a long term goal and shall set the preconditions - political and security - that must exist before entering negotiations.
  7. Restoration of the Gaza-bordering areas shall be a national priority together with enlargement of the defense budget and changes to the economical structure.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
"The civilian government of Gaza shall initially and temporarily be entrusted to an international team led by the US and with Arab participation (except Turkey and Qatar)"
Turkey is not, & never has been, Arab. Turks are either amused or offended if called Arab. It's like calling Finns Germanic.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
swerve said:
"The civilian government of Gaza shall initially and temporarily be entrusted to an international team led by the US and with Arab participation (except Turkey and Qatar)"
Turkey is not, & never has been, Arab. Turks are either amused or offended if called Arab. It's like calling Finns Germanic.
Click to expand...
I think the point of the list is to be concise, and explaining the difference between Arabs and Turks defeats that point. Turkey is highly engaged in the middle east, including with terrorist organizations like Hamas. Their exclusion most likely means "middle eastern nations can participate, but those who materially aid Hamas can't".
 
OPSSG

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 4 of 4: Hostage negotiations & psychological warfare by Hamas

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731173486717010313
10. Despite being 58 days into the war, Hamas & PIJ retain their capability of firing on central Israel and Jerusalem. The more Palestinian groups fire into central Israel, the more intense the air campaign will be. The IDF directive to evacuate for much of Khan Yunis to areas further south in Gaza, is evidence of the resumption of the air campaign against Hamas tunnels.

11. With the start of fighting again, things are looking bleak for the remaining 136 to 137 Israeli hostages.
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(a) The joint mediation efforts by Qatar and Egypt led to the release of 84 children and women from the Gaza Strip, along with 24 foreign nationals.​
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(b) Under the terms of the agreement for the pause, Hamas was supposed to return 15 more women and 2 children but have refused to do so. In the last day of the pause, they only released 8 hostages.​
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(c) Good to see both Elon Musk & @Schwarzenegger wearing the tags — #BringThemHome.​

Naftali Bennett said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729920958503211059
Residents of Kibbutz Nir Oz suffered the most kidnappings and in fact 1 out of every 4 (!) kibbutz members was either murdered or kidnapped.

I sat with them now for several hours at the Red Sea Hotel in Eilat.

We went through the events of Black Sabbath in detail, what happened since then, and where they are going from here.

Many of the friends who sat with me have lost a father or a sister, or have a family member kidnapped.

They are a group of people who have gone through an inhuman nightmare.
really.

A lot of things came up.

I will post one specific request of theirs here:
That the government appoint *one* central coordinator for them, who can provide a solution to problems raised without them having to run around chasing officials.
Click to expand...
12. Interesting that ruling party in Israel has lost all credibility with the communities most affected by 7 Oct 2023. Naftali Bennett, as the former PM and an opposition leader, is playing a key role in meeting the needs of hostage families. Above is a translation of the Twit from Hebrew.

13. Doron Yuval Castelman, who went into action to save citizens from a terror attack at a bus stop, is shot by a settler-solider, who is trigger happy with regard to ROEs. The testimony of Moshiko Harush, a young man who was saved by Castelman is crucial for justice. Castelman asked him to run, got out of the vehicle, and neutralized the terrorists at the bus stop. Moshiko Harush's testimony is critical, he describes a situation in which, without the lawyer foreshadowing, the carnage would have continued. A real hero.

(a) After neutralising the terrorists, Castelman threw away the weapon, went on his knees, raised his hands, threw away the weapon and begged for his life in front of a IDF soldier, Aviad Farij, who simply sprayed him with bullets.​
​
(b) The shooting of Castleman was carried out by one soldier, Aviad Farij, who, despite being shouted at by several people not to shoot, including a soldier who participated in the neutralisation with the hero lawyer, fired several bullets in Yuval Castleman's direction. The first the shot hit the jaw, which prevented him from continuing to talk.​
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(c) A soldier from the Golani patrol took care of the wounded, shouted at the soldier to stop shooting, but he fired and fired, also hitting civilian vehicles on the spot.​
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(d) The far right movement is a danger to others in Israel because they lack trigger discipline & can’t be trusted. There are some uncomfortable truths about the current, right-wing, Israeli Govt, the Biden admininistration needs to confront, if there is to be peace in Gaza.​

14. Maddeningly, some Israeli media describe him as a victim to "friendly fire." He was deliberately executed by Aviad Farij, a douchebag in IDF uniform who was too hyped up to stop, and, in his own words, all so hyped to mark an "x" on his rifle. The IDF soldier who killed Castelman, should go to jail.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731321802708631720

15. The scumbag Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, should not be allowed to say, "That's life" & get away with this sort of statement.

Edit: In breaking news, Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid calls on Netanyahu to resign. IMO, the Prime Minister should resign & Ben Gvir, the Minister of Homeland Security, should also resign.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
OPSSG said:
13. Doron Yuval Castelman, who went into action to save citizens from a terror attack at a bus stop, is shot by a settler-solider, who is trigger happy with regard to ROEs. The testimony of Moshiko Harush, a young man who was saved by Castelman is crucial for justice. Castelman asked him to run, got out of the vehicle, and neutralized the terrorists at the bus stop. Moshiko Harush's testimony is critical, he describes a situation in which, without the lawyer foreshadowing, the carnage would have continued. A real hero.

(a) After neutralising the terrorists, Castelman threw away the weapon, went on his knees, raised his hands, threw away the weapon and begged for his life in front of a IDF soldier, Aviad Farij, who simply sprayed him with bullets.​
​
(b) The shooting of Castleman was carried out by one soldier, Aviad Farij, who, despite being shouted at by several people not to shoot, including a soldier who participated in the neutralisation with the hero lawyer, fired several bullets in Yuval Castleman's direction. The first the shot hit the jaw, which prevented him from continuing to talk.​
​
(c) A soldier from the Golani patrol took care of the wounded, shouted at the soldier to stop shooting, but he fired and fired, also hitting civilian vehicles on the spot.​
…​

14. Maddeningly, some Israeli media describe him as a victim to "friendly fire." He was deliberately executed by Aviad Farij, a douchebag in IDF uniform who was too hyped up to stop, and, in his own words, all so hyped to mark an "x" on his rifle. The IDF soldier who killed Castelman, should go to jail.
Click to expand...
Of the mainstream media (TV channels 11, 12, 13, 14), only channel 14 have disgustingly referred to it as a "friendly fire incident". The rest have talked about the investigation and labeled Castelman a 'hero' - a title he deserves.

The protest movement keeps Castelman in the center of current public debate and views his killing as a result of Ben Gvir's (ultra right, populist, minister of homeland security) policies.

The soldier in question acted well outside the standard ROE to the point where even I, as non-combat, understand there was highly likely unlawful conduct.

Netanyahu is also criticised for downplaying the significance of the event.

Regarding Lapid's roadmap and the topic of "false conception":
  • Whatever is said about Hamas should be taken as general, rather than specific policy. This means also Hezbollah.
  • There is an understanding among Israel's politicians and people that despite Hezbollah's decision to stand down from this conflict, they cannot be allowed to build up forces in peacetime, and that a military operation against them, under Israeli initiative, is inevitable.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
According to geolocated footage, IDF appears to have moved along a straight line toward the sea, perhaps hoping to create cutoff similar to Wadi Aza in the first phase of the ground offensive in northern Gaza.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731789854457909402

Pressure on UNRWA is mounting. In my opinion, UNRWA's existence does not stand up to scrutiny for multiple reasons - for example the existence of two separate refugee aid agencies. But beyond that, people are taking notice that basing an organization mandated with handling funds and aid material, entirely on a local population of an area under total terrorist control, is not such a good idea.

On Twitter UNRWA warned against allegations about their conduct, primarily those about an UNRWA teacher locking and starving a hostage in his attic - according to a testimony by said hostage. They were promptly ratio'd and community noted.

I believe that regardless of administration, Israel will either severely limit or outright ban UNRWA's activities after the war ends.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730650140229201949
 
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OPSSG

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 4: Round 2 of fighting

1. Almost 60 days into the war, the IDF results from Gaza is not as effective as proclaimed by Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant or Prime Minister Netanyahu.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731873640218530126

2. This is because if Hamas is a degraded organisation as claimed by the IDF Spokesman, it would not have been able to uniformly and simultaneously cease firing throughout the Gaza Strip at the very moment a truce went into effect and start firing rockets once again, when the pause in fighting ended. Palestinian militias in the Gaza Strip conducted 18 rocket & mortar attacks into Israel on 4 Dec 2023.

3. Israel has issued evacuation warnings in some North Gaza neighbourhoods, including the Jabalya camp.

(a) The tempo of ops will change when the IDF cuts Khan Yunis, the 2nd largest city in Gaza and major stronghold of Hamas, into multiple sectors in a 2-pronged attack.​
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(b) Initial progress will seem slow due to the number of enemy fighters there — but once the stage is set, & the Israeli forces in the north can link-up with forces in Khan Yunis (in 3 to 5 days), things will speed up.​
(c) As Lt. Col. (Res.) @da64 speculates, ”We think the leaders of Hamas are hiding there and, also, we have a great suspicion that many of our hostages are there, so this is the new target of the IDF.”​

4. During the humanitarian pause (when 84 Israeli hostages were released), over 200 aid trucks flowed into Gaza. Logical that amount of humanitarian aid would be curtailed to 100 trucks (until the remaining 136 to 137 Israeli hostages are released by Hamas). Thanks to pressure from the Biden Admin, aid continues to flow.

5. I was initially hoping that major combat operations would end by 1Q2024, but it looks like this may not be realistic. The IDF has taken feedback from the US DoD to proceed with more care, as fighting in Southern Gaza begins.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
One of the side effects of this war has been a spike in global antisemitism which in turn created a surge of Jewish immigration to Israel.
Presidents of Harvard, MIT, and Penn, explained this phenomenon in a house hearing.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1732152952775639505

These are some of the numbers according to Israeli media. I could not find the original source, was possibly aired on TV.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1732301753989624006

IDF has reportedly started pumping sea water into Hamas tunnels. This has already occurred in at least one instance during this war, and now seems to be employed on a larger scale. Prior, the IDF released details about identifying 800 shafts and destroying 500 of them.
The employment of sea water can help unravel additional tunnel openings by identifying flooded areas.
It can be inferred that the IDF believes the tunnels it is set to destroy contain no hostages.
Previously the IDF either blew up tunnels with bunker busters (very expensive method), sealed tunnel openings, or manually inserted explosives into tunnels for controlled demolition of tunnels, or more frequently sections or openings of tunnels. These are complex and highly dangerous methods. By pumping sea water, the IDF can help Hamas Find Out at a much higher rate.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1732069158181896495
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
OPSSG

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 2 of 4: Round 2 of fighting

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1732540948553343093
6. On day 60 to 61 of war, the IDF has advanced by 2 main routes into the centre of Khan Yunis. One from the northeast & the other from the east — destroying 30 tunnel shafts & finding a large weapons cache. A video has emerged of the 98 division (which includes the commando brigade) fighting at Khan Yunis.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1732755238497447950
7. On the way to interrogation. The arrest of terrorists in the Gaza Strip has provided the IDF & the security establishment with detailed intelligence about the actual situation on the side of Hamas.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
New IDF webpage tracking all losses since October 7th with distinction between the early days and the maneuver in Gaza, and includes injuries by categories.
In it is also a link to a list of all KIA with their personal pages.

A substantial amount of injuries is recorded, despite a relatively very low number of KIA.

 
F

Fredled

Active Member
Flooding the tunnels is the right thing to do. However, the Israelis claim to know where the hostages are is, IMO, BS.
They didn't flood tunnels in previous operations because it require extensive pumping installation to provide enough water at a fast rate. The tunnels should be flooded as quickly as possible to prevent the Hamas to escape in an organised manner.
I imagine that prior to that, the IDF made large usage of gaz. But they don;t talk about that for obvious reasons.

The Israelis should ASAP organise their own humanitarian aid for the Gazan population. Else, one day they will be accused of genocide. They better not to overlook this issue.
 
F

Fredled

Active Member
About the pictures of prisoners in underwear. This reminds me of the Abu Grahib scandal in Iraq... In fact, this is a huge humiliation in the Arab culture. I have read that they were also beaten with shoes! The ultimate outrage. Yet this is how they should be dealt with. It's better than mass executions or real physical torture. But for the Arabs, this is not obvious. The weight of the cultural believes and religious traditions is something unthinkable for westerners.
 
V

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
The Houthis have hit Norwegian tanker M/T Strinda with a cruise missile. A fire broke out but nobody aboard the ship were injured, and the ship is now continuing on it's way, protected by destroyer USS Mason. MK Strinda: Yemen's rebel Houthis hit Norwegian tanker with missile - BBC News

French FREMM frigate Languedoc was also involved -- it shot down a drone attacking M/T Strinda, and prevented a hijacking attempt. Unfortunately it failed to stop the cruise missile from hitting the ship. French Frigate Languedoc Intercepts Yet Another Drone from Yemen - Naval News

The Houthis claim the ship was transporting oil to Israel. However, the Norwegian shipping company says it was transporting feedstock for biofuel to Italy.

Things are really heating up. More countries (including Norway) should consider to send naval ships to the region to escort civilian ships. And a warning should be given to the Houthis: unless they stop this activity immediately they should be hit hard. This is not acceptable.
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Fredled said:
The Israelis should ASAP organise their own humanitarian aid for the Gazan population. Else, one day they will be accused of genocide. They better not to overlook this issue.
Click to expand...
Israel was accused of genocide since the dawn of mankind, and there is already plenty of humanitarian aid going into Gaza. But this is how it always ends up:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734248601407156333
 
Big_Zucchini

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
According to a reservist (Lt Colonel) at my work place, the IDF is drawing down a bit in Gaza and shifting a few divisions up north as there is preparation for a likely escalation with Hezbollah in the coming month.
He explained that the army assesses Hezbollah as a "symmetrical" organization - i.e. its operational process seeks symmetry between attacks on it, and its response. This may indicate the IDF is taking seriously the option of a preemptive strike on Hezbollah.
If it seems odd that such a debrief is provided to a workplace, then know that it's in the context of our physical location, be it at home or at work.
 
Atomic Warrior

Atomic Warrior

New Member
TRANSLATION:
(Egyptian Media) Cairo has not yet received any response to the ceasefire initiative in Gaza.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739711064252567769


Egypt Sets Out Ambitious Israel-Gaza Ceasefire Plan:
Scribed as an ambitious plan to end the war in Gaza with a ceasefire.

The proposal, which was presented to Israel, Hamas, the United States and European governments on Monday would see Israel fully withdraw from the Gaza Strip, all captives held by Hamas, and many Palestinian prisoners, freed, and a united technocratic Palestinian government installed in the enclave.
Click to expand...
www.aljazeera.com

Egypt sets out ambitious Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan

Israel’s divided war cabinet to discuss proposal. Hamas reported to reject suggestion of sharing power in Gaza.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
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