Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[Redlands18]

Australian warship confronted by Chinese navy last week transits sensitive Taiwan Strait - ABC News
HMAS Toowoomba transited the Taiwan Straight last week, wonder if the crew saluted the Chinese on the way past, of the one finger variety.
Something I have never seen on an Anzac before, 3 Harpoon launchers starboard of the bridge as well as three in the normal position, if there is 3 more on the Port side, than that would give a total of 9 over the standard 8.

 

[Pusser01]

Australian warship confronted by Chinese navy last week transits sensitive Taiwan Strait - ABC News
HMAS Toowoomba transited the Taiwan Straight last week, wonder if the crew saluted the Chinese on the way past, of the one finger variety.
Something I have never seen on an Anzac before, 3 Harpoon launchers starboard of the bridge as well as three in the normal position, if there is 3 more on the Port side, than that would give a total of 9 over the standard 8.

Toowoomba is just carrying 6x Harpoon in that picture instead of the full complement of 8. I've seen in the past where just the bottom positions are filled just giving a total of 4.

 

[Todjaeger]

Australian warship confronted by Chinese navy last week transits sensitive Taiwan Strait - ABC News
HMAS Toowoomba transited the Taiwan Straight last week, wonder if the crew saluted the Chinese on the way past, of the one finger variety.
Something I have never seen on an Anzac before, 3 Harpoon launchers starboard of the bridge as well as three in the normal position, if there is 3 more on the Port side, than that would give a total of 9 over the standard 8.

Per the image from the article, it does appear that instead of having a pair of quad Mk 141 cells for the Harpoon AShM it has a pair of triple-cells. Other times I have seen images of ANZAC-class frigate with pairs of Mk 141 cells mounted forward of and below the bridge.

EDIT: And @Pusser01 for the win in typing.

 

[Pusser01]

Two things, the first being a question. What was the last commercial build Austal did in Henderson, and did it have a solely or largely domestic workforce?

Secondly, whilst there is quite literally a big jump in size between a 40 m steel-hulled patrol boat using mostly COTS systems and a 100m+ FSG or FFG, I personally would be more concerned about the ability of an essentially untried shipbuilding to fit and integrate the significantly more advanced systems which one would expect aboard a guided missile corvette or frigate.

As a side note, I have not been able to locate a displacement for the Guardian-class patrol boats, but I did come across reports of design and quality defects, with some of them being somewhat similar to some of the defects found aboard the Armidale-class patrol boats, specifically the potential for onboard air quality hazards.

This was the last commercial build at Austal WA, don't know what the composition of the workforce was though. Bajamar Express & Bañaderos Express | Austal: Corporate

 

[Pusser01]

patrol boat to frigate, big leap.
it is possibly that commercial builds may all end up going to austals overseas yards from now on. Who owns the empty land next to austal at Henderson?

The land to the south of Austal between it & Echo is part of the AMC & owned by the WA Gov.

 

[Todjaeger]

This was the last commercial build at Austal WA, don't know what the composition of the workforce was though. Bajamar Express & Bañaderos Express | Austal: Corporate

Thanks for that. So it has been at least three years since any commercial work has supported the Austal workforce in Henderson. About what I expected, in that it seems Austal has now got their Henderson facility (not the HQ) setup to be dependent on orders from gov't, with possibly some limited potential for export orders getting placed for patrol boats.

 

[Reptilia]

The land to the south of Austal between it & Echo is part of the AMC & owned by the WA Gov.

And to the North?

 

[Redlands18]

Toowoomba is just carrying 6x Harpoon in that picture instead of the full complement of 8. I've seen in the past where just the bottom positions are filled just giving a total of 4.

The angle of the picture threw me out, just looks like they are pointed straight forward and the Port side ones straight to starboard instead of at an angle.

 

[Pusser01]

And to the North?

There's an area that is owned by Austal that has enough room for another couple of erection shed to be built. After that is just crown land that runs into Woodman Point.

 

[Reptilia]

There's an area that is owned by Austal that has enough room for another couple of erection shed to be built. After that is just crown land that runs into Woodman Point.

cheers. Not really enough room for a 120-150m long hall on the north side. AME halls are a decent size, about 110m x 20m internal each, perhaps could be lengthened. When did Austal hand that shed over?

Also..
going back through the civmec annual report(June), it states they will begin opv 7 build in early 2024.

https://s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/assets.civmec.com.au/app/uploads/2023/10/09132310/Civmec-Ltd-AR-2023.pdf

apparently they have alot of new lithium and hydrogen projects. Possibly too much work for civmec to continue opv build? Austal by default the only builder left?

 

[kato]

In the F-125 project, I believe Lurrsen was the builder, building at fairly newly acquired yard in former east Germany, Peene Werft, but a design from TKMS.

Lürssen built the forward 65m sections of all four ships, with two sections built at Lemwerder in Bremen and two at Peene-Werft in Wolgast. The rear sections were subcontracted by Thyssen-Krupp Industrial Solutions (not Thyssen-Krupp Marine Systems) to Blohm&Voss in Hamburg, which had been sold to an investment fonds by TKMS in 2011, and subsequently in 2016 was bought by Lürssen.

The design for both F125 and K130 (which was built in a distributed manner similarly to the above) came from Blohm&Voss within the respective joint venture to my knowledge. Having bought Blohm&Voss therefore should have their design office as well, unless that was discarded in restructuring (wouldn't be surprising).

 

[SiVisPacemParaBellum]

The Hunter approx $2.7 billion AUD per unit(first batch), $5+ billion is through life cost.

Speaking of costs…

Per unit(Australian built / overseas purchase), Tier 2 Approx

Arrowhead 140 - $1+ billion AUD / $900 million AUD(U.K)
Mogami(B2) - $1 billion AUD / $700 million AUD(Japan)
MEKO A210 - unknown, likely the most expensive to build and possibly buy(Germany)
Alpha 5000 - unknown, likely close to $1 billion to build, $800 million AUD to buy(Spain)
AUS Light frigate - $900 million AUD / $500 million AUD(Taiwan)
Tasman class - $800 million AUD / $600 million AUD(Spain)
C90 - $600million AUD / $450 million AUD(Germany)
Arafura - $400 million AUD / $250 million AUD(Germany)

Not through life.

@Reptilia Sources please.

Ngatimozart.

The Hunter approx $2.7 billion AUD per unit(first batch), $5+ billion is through life cost.

Speaking of costs…

Per unit(Australian built / overseas purchase), Tier 2 Approx

Arrowhead 140 - $1+ billion AUD / $900 million AUD(U.K)
Mogami(B2) - $1 billion AUD / $700 million AUD(Japan)
MEKO A210 - unknown, likely the most expensive to build and possibly buy(Germany)
Alpha 5000 - unknown, likely close to $1 billion to build, $800 million AUD to buy(Spain)
AUS Light frigate - $900 million AUD / $500 million AUD(Taiwan)
Tasman class - $800 million AUD / $600 million AUD(Spain)
C90 - $600million AUD / $450 million AUD(Germany)
Arafura - $400 million AUD / $250 million AUD(Germany)

Not through life.

@Reptilia Sources please.

Ngatimozart.

Bulgaria pays 250 Mio. €/C90 - 280 Mio. $
And you can expect MEKO-A210 to cost 700-750 Mio. € ig - 800-850 Mio. $

@SiVisPacemParaBellum
Sources please. You read the above posts so you know the requirements.

Ngatimozart.

 

[Volkodav]

There is a crossover point where the cost of the installed combat system is such that the survivability and capability of the platform needs to be upgraded to justify it. Steel is cheap and air is free but it reaches the point that what is fitted justifies higher quality elsewhere.

You can fit missiles to a Cape Class PB but they will be less effective than the same fitted to an upgraded ANZAC which in turn will be less effective than the same fitted to a Hunter.

Why, because the bigger, better built ships, with the better combat systems are more survivable, can see further, and carry more weapons. They also with have layered self defence capabilities and be better networked.

A swarm of fast attack craft or corvettes will be less effective and less capable than a single high end multi role warship. Add a swarm of small craft/corvettes to a group including one or more high end ships and you have something even more capable.

 

[DDG38]

Meanwhile in fleet ops recently :
"HMAS Toowoomba conducts replenishment at sea with Canadian commercial container ship MV Asterix during regional presence deployment 2023." Image source : ADF Image Library

"HMAS Brisbane sails through big swell in the Philippine Sea during ANNUALEX 2023." Image Source : ADF Image Library

"HMAS Brisbane and HMAS Stalwart conduct a Replenishment at Sea in the Philippine Sea during ANNUALEX 2023." Image Source : ADF Image Library

"HMAS Choules and Royal New Zealand Navy's HMNZS Aotearoa alongside at Honiara Port, Solomon Islands." Image Source : ADF Image Library

 

[Tasman]

Meanwhile in fleet ops recently :
"HMAS Toowoomba conducts replenishment at sea with Canadian commercial container ship MV Asterix during regional presence deployment 2023." Image source : ADF Image Library
View attachment 50970
"HMAS Brisbane sails through big swell in the Philippine Sea during ANNUALEX 2023." Image Source : ADF Image Library
View attachment 50971
"HMAS Brisbane and HMAS Stalwart conduct a Replenishment at Sea in the Philippine Sea during ANNUALEX 2023." Image Source : ADF Image Library
View attachment 50972
"HMAS Choules and Royal New Zealand Navy's HMNZS Aotearoa alongside at Honiara Port, Solomon Islands." Image Source : ADF Image Library
View attachment 50973

Nice set of photos. Good to see the RAN working with our Kiwi and Canadian friends.
Also nice to see the Phalanx CIWS fitted to Choules. About time Phalanx was also fitted to the LHDs, planning for which was announced half a decade ago!

Tas

 

[Reptilia]

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They have OPV80, OPV90 and now OPV85?

opv80 range now 6,000nm?

 

[devo99]

opv80 range now 6,000nm?

I have to ask rhetorically, at what speed would it need to sail to achieve that range?

 

[Reptilia]

I have to ask rhetorically, at what speed would it need to sail to achieve that range?

guessing 10-12knts in calm waters.
RAN listed the Arafura at 4,000nm, 14 knts.

weirdly the Daraasalam class - 7,500nm (speed?) according to most defence pages.

 

[devo99]

guessing 10-12knts in calm waters.

RAN would probably be wanting that up to 18 kts to keep up with the other escorts.

 

[Bob53]

The Hunter approx $2.7 billion AUD per unit(first batch), $5+ billion is through life cost.

Speaking of costs…

Per unit(Australian built / overseas purchase), Tier 2 Approx

Arrowhead 140 - $1+ billion AUD / $900 million AUD(U.K)
Mogami(B2) - $1 billion AUD / $700 million AUD(Japan)
MEKO A210 - unknown, likely the most expensive to build and possibly buy(Germany)
Alpha 5000 - unknown, likely close to $1 billion to build, $800 million AUD to buy(Spain)
AUS Light frigate - $900 million AUD / $500 million AUD(Taiwan)
Tasman class - $800 million AUD / $600 million AUD(Spain)
C90 - $600million AUD / $450 million AUD(Germany)
Arafura - $400 million AUD / $250 million AUD(Germany)

Not through life.

@Reptilia Sources please.

Ngatimozart.

Well at $2.7 billion sail away ( including Volks estimated $1 billion for Ageis) it seems about right and comparable in Australian terms to other options.