Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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Sorry I can’t help myself. Simultaneously your teachers were right, and Australia can now sustain more than that:
Green Revolution - Wikipedia
Bringing it back on the RAN and the surface force review - I was watching the coverage of Albo in Shanghai, and the thought did occur to me that this would be a substantially more complicated meeting (and it may not have happened at all) if we had announced a massive naval buildup a couple of weeks before. I imagine this is playing into at least some of the thinking behind delaying the public release of the findings until next year ie create a bit of clear air either side of this visit.
To play the devil’s advocate and admittedly being somewhat optimistic you could take the view that a lot of what is happening with the Navy review is done behind closed doors. When you think about some of the really big decisions made over the last few years they have been conducted in complete secrecy.
The Attack class submarine was cancelled over night and AUKUS happened without any fanfare. The decision to buy Virginias and build AUKUS subs in Australia was kept under wraps. New Blackhawks to replace the NH90s came out of the blue. Elements of the DSR such as buying new long range missiles was acted on well before the public release of the paper. In other words just because public announcements haven’t been made it doesn’t mean that nothing is happening in the background.
Certainly timing and communication is a thing in diplomacy.
I don't think anyone was expecting a massive naval announcement while Albo was in China.
Honestly, anything we will now announce will be small fry. Even if we announced that Hunter is getting 96 VLS, and would arrive in 2024, it probably wouldn't make news outside Australia. Even if we announced the OPV was going to now be a 5000t frigate, it probably isn't that huge a deal. This alone isn't really big news for China, and Australia is very far away, and builds ships, slowly.
The big announcement for China was the AUKUS subs. That was big, attention getting announcement. Frankly France reacted bigger to it than China did. Arguably it was more world shifting for the French than it was for the Chinese.
Once Albo is back in a Australia, give it a few weeks, and we will be clear for any announcements we could think of.
It may also mean that decisions on surface fleet have been taken and they are lining up other announcements. If all the surface warships were to be built in Osborne, for example, they would need to have an announcement ready on amphibs (or something) for Henderson. If they need new consortia to build that could be going on too.
The Defence Minister visiting UK on Nov 4 committed again to continuous shipbuilding at Osborne
in another interview in the US he did not even bite on the Alexander Downer comments.
iambuzzard
Active Member
It's actually sensible thinking. Don't antagonise China while you're visiting.
Yes you touch on one subject that is nuts to me…why in the hell do we grow cotton in the driest continent on the planet?. The Murray Darling Basin is cyclically under a lot of stress and the cotton line down the darling takes an incredible amount of water Out of the system.
I had a quick look at the list of exhibitors at the Indo-Pacific Maritime Expo and there are a number of shipbuilders which might tell us something about the direction of the surface fleet review:
Austal
Babcock
BAE
Civmec
Damen
Fincantieri
Gibbs & Cox
HII
Luerssen
Navantia
Northrup Grumman
Most are pretty self explanatory (although Gibbs & Cox would’ve been a surprise before their LinkedIn post last week) but a few interesting ones:
- are Damen there spruiking landing craft or small combatants? Maybe their SIGMA frigates?
- no Mitsubishi or Mitsui - looks like the Mogami lovers are likely to be disappointed.
- are Fincantieri going to push Constellation, or do the have something smaller?
My overarching observation is that almost all of these shipbuilders produce very capable 4000 - 7000t frigates. This indicates to me that they may have a clearer view on what “Tier 2” means that the general public does, and it is something with “Anzac +” levels of capability.
But perhaps I’m being overly optimistic. We’ll see what they put on display.
Austal
Babcock
BAE
Civmec
Damen
Fincantieri
Gibbs & Cox
HII
Luerssen
Navantia
Northrup Grumman
Most are pretty self explanatory (although Gibbs & Cox would’ve been a surprise before their LinkedIn post last week) but a few interesting ones:
- are Damen there spruiking landing craft or small combatants? Maybe their SIGMA frigates?
- no Mitsubishi or Mitsui - looks like the Mogami lovers are likely to be disappointed.
- are Fincantieri going to push Constellation, or do the have something smaller?
My overarching observation is that almost all of these shipbuilders produce very capable 4000 - 7000t frigates. This indicates to me that they may have a clearer view on what “Tier 2” means that the general public does, and it is something with “Anzac +” levels of capability.
But perhaps I’m being overly optimistic. We’ll see what they put on display.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
It's not just about the RAN though, its as much about the Indo-Pacific as a whole. There will be a heavy concentration on the NZ requirements with their recent announcement of a major re-capitalisation of virtually the entire fleet (except Aotearoa) over the next 15 years. Damen, Fincantieri and Navantia all have the range of designs to be able to build the entire fleet.
I would suspect that Fincantieri is more likely to push the FREMM, than the Constellation and they also have the PPA.
It was on display at Pacific 2015. No body in Australia seemed particularly interested in a crew efficient 4000-5000t ASW frigate.
The Japanese have the Indonesians on board, and the courting the Singaporeans. They aren't in the business of relentless pitching to people who probably are not interested or have already rejected. The are easier deals to be made.
From their point of view if Australia was serious at looking at a 4000-5000t frigate, Australia would have indicated such back in 2015.. The Japanese tend to take rejection very hard. They aren't like some companies who are happy to participate in a tender even if its heavily slanted against them or if it looks like there is already a favourite.
Shame, because I think it would be an interesting design to benchmark against others, as its very clean sheet and brings interesting ideas.
No. No Naval Group. In any way for form. I doubt they will ever turn up.
They have abandoned their website/domain name.
On linked in there are people who still work for them, but I assume they are under redundancies that are getting paid out, many have moved on or are available for offers. There are other shipbuilders that are getting larger in Australia.
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
BAE unveils ‘upgunned’ Hunter proposal - Australian Defence Magazine
BAE has unveiled a Modified Hunter at Indo Pacific with a 64 Cell VLS module in place of the mission bay, they also lose the towed array sonar. Can also be fitted with the Mk 57 VLS.
BAE has unveiled a Modified Hunter at Indo Pacific with a 64 Cell VLS module in place of the mission bay, they also lose the towed array sonar. Can also be fitted with the Mk 57 VLS.
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Makes a lot more sense than building 3 more Hobarts. BAE are saying they could build them from ship 4.Now didn't someone mention this potential configuration a couple of weeks back?
Good to see and fingers crossed.
I think some handsome bloke said it last year?Now didn't someone mention this potential configuration a couple of weeks back?
Good to see and fingers crossed.
Great minds @Volkodav !
Interestingly no BMT considering they're competing for the JSS and landing craft contracts.
Scott Elaurant
Well-Known Member
The Navantia exhibit at Indo-Pacific 2023 has an interesting design called "Tasman-class corvette". This is based on the Avante 2200 design for Saudi Arabia.
The design is displacing 3,600t and 109.6m-long and 15.35m-wide. It has an anti-air (16 VLS), anti-submarine (MH60, 3 x TT) and anti-surface (12 NSM) capability. Could it be contender for new @Australian_Navy Tier 2 warship?
Either way, the definition of "Corvette" is getting stretched. These are Anzac sized ships.
From
The design is displacing 3,600t and 109.6m-long and 15.35m-wide. It has an anti-air (16 VLS), anti-submarine (MH60, 3 x TT) and anti-surface (12 NSM) capability. Could it be contender for new @Australian_Navy Tier 2 warship?
Either way, the definition of "Corvette" is getting stretched. These are Anzac sized ships.
From
SwingShift
Member
‘Tasman’ class sounds like a strategic name choice to resonate both sides of the ditch.
According to the tweet you shared, build partnered with Civmec and Austal.
What's the model hiding between the Tasman and Hobart classes? The one with what looks like a 76mm and 16VLS cells forward and more VLS cells amidship? An extra amped up Avante or an AWD derivative of the F-110?