Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Anthony_B_78]

It could be even worse than that.
I have also heard that 5/7 will become a mirror of 2 RAR. Again, time will tell.

Really have to wonder about it all. For an army of 30,000 to have only six infantry battalions, let alone five? Yes, the tooth to tail ratio is a lot more in the favour of the latter than it ever was, but, seriously, this seems way out of whack when you consider other armies. The Canadians seem to have nine battalions with fewer active troops; the British has about two and half times our strength but five and half times as many infantry battalions. Even if we look at our Kiwi cousins, fewer than 5000 active troops but two battalions (maybe not at full strength?). Yes, comparisons are never so simple, but it is questionable.

 

[Stampede]

It could be even worse than that.
I have also heard that 5/7 will become a mirror of 2 RAR. Again, time will tell.

That does not surprise me in the context that the littoral stuff up north was going to be a focus: but I'd had hoped for an additional Battalion not what appears to be happening. That being a contraction of over all Infantry battalions.

 

[old faithful]

Guess we will have to wait and see.
I don't mind reserve infantry, but they can't be trained to good standard 2 weeks a year, 1 weekend a month and Tuesday nights.
Still need regular infantry to expand rapidly, as well as have a reaction force and provide protection for other units.
Recruitment is not the issue, but the recruitment companies are.

 

[Volkodav]

There is talk of a return of the Ready Reserve. Potentially this could be an extra Btn for each BDE.

 

[OldTex]

There is talk of a return of the Ready Reserve. Potentially this could be an extra Btn for each BDE.

Which will be only slightly better than the current arrangement where the Reserves provide the 3rd Btn to each Bde. The Ready Reserve (version 1) was little more than a youth employment program. It drained a significant amount of experienced manpower for little or no return. If the Reserves are to be more effective in reinforcing and supplementing the Regular army then the Reserves need to be provided with more training days and realistic roles so that they can recruit and retain manpower.

 

[MickB]

It could be even worse than that.
I have also heard that 5/7 will become a mirror of 2 RAR. Again, time will tell.

I may be wrong but I'm assuming that a light infantryman is quicker to train that an armoured vehicle,. air defence, artillary, ISR or similar specialised role.

So I belive it is wise to concentrate on these roles. with so many new capabilities being introduced.
Then the additional numbers of Infantry can be built up again through future expansion of numbers.

 

[OldTex]

It could be even worse than that.
I have also heard that 5/7 will become a mirror of 2 RAR. Again, time will tell.

If that were to be the case then between 2 and 5/7 RAR they might manage to scrape together perhaps 3, maybe 4, Coys. That composite would not have the same effect as a full Btn (apart from providing some extra postings for MAJ & LT COL)

 

[OldTex]

I may be wrong but I'm assuming that a light infantryman is quicker to train that an armoured vehicle,. air defence, artillary, ISR or similar specialised role.

So I belive it is wise to concentrate on these roles. with so many new capabilities being introduced.
Then the additional numbers of Infantry can be built up again through future expansion of numbers.

Remember that there is a saying ---- "Old soldiers never die, young ones do!". It takes time and a lot of effort to change a raw infantryman just out of IET into an effective infantryman, perhaps in DFSW or Mortars or Sniper/Reconn etc and as Sect comds.

 

[old faithful]

I may be wrong but I'm assuming that a light infantryman is quicker to train that an armoured vehicle,. air defence, artillary, ISR or similar specialised role.

So I belive it is wise to concentrate on these roles. with so many new capabilities being introduced.
Then the additional numbers of Infantry can be built up again through future expansion of numbers.

Yes, could train a light infantryman in 12 weeks.
In war time....and then you have a cannon fodder type infantryman.
To get to a good standard, 6 months training and 12 months in a battalion. To get to a junior NCO standard a minimum of 3 years in a battalion to have any experience, and I'm talking lance corporal. Of course you could get them there quicker, but at a basic level.
Good soldiers, regardless of trade, are the same as any other profession. Time. What job do you do?

 

[MickB]

Yes, could train a light infantryman in 12 weeks.
In war time....and then you have a cannon fodder type infantryman.
To get to a good standard, 6 months training and 12 months in a battalion. To get to a junior NCO standard a minimum of 3 years in a battalion to have any experience, and I'm talking lance corporal. Of course you could get them there quicker, but at a basic level.
Good soldiers, regardless of trade, are the same as any other profession. Time. What job do you do?

Thank you for your reply, I stand corrected.

 

[Maranoa]

Guess we will have to wait and see.
I don't mind reserve infantry, but they can't be trained to good standard 2 weeks a year, 1 weekend a month and Tuesday nights.
Still need regular infantry to expand rapidly, as well as have a reaction force and provide protection for other units.
Recruitment is not the issue, but the recruitment companies are.

Absolutely right. I get to see some of this up close and personnel and I am constantly stunned at who is rejected by the recruiting companies after applying.

 

[Volkodav]

Another factor is the planned increase in littoral capability. This will require more crews and maintainers.

Interesting that the Army was working with US Army LSVs. These are the sort of ships that would appear to fit the DSR intent. Basing heavy armour in Darwin and having a second littoral battalion would also fit with this.

 

[Redlands18]

Another factor is the planned increase in littoral capability. This will require more crews and maintainers.

Interesting that the Army was working with US Army LSVs. These are the sort of ships that would appear to fit the DSR intent. Basing heavy armour in Darwin and having a second littoral battalion would also fit with this.

Require more crew and maintainers, may just be the understatement of the year, we are going from LCM-8s with a crew of 3-4 under a JNCO, to the LMV-M with a crew of 6-8 possibly under a SNCO and then LMV-H with a crew req of somewhere between 12-20, probably under a Lieutenant. We talk about the big increase in capability Arty is getting but its nowhere near what the Army has planned for the Watercraft fleet.

 

[Anthony_B_78]

Require more crew and maintainers, may just be the understatement of the year, we are going from LCM-8s with a crew of 3-4 under a JNCO, to the LMV-M with a crew of 6-8 possibly under a SNCO and then LMV-H with a crew req of somewhere between 12-20, probably under a Lieutenant. We talk about the big increase in capability Arty is getting but its nowhere near what the Army has planned for the Watercraft fleet.

It's not in the numbers though that would justify abolishing an infantry battalion. I just for the life of me cannot see how our Army is unable to field more battalions. Where are they all?

 

[Morgo]

It's not in the numbers though that would justify abolishing an infantry battalion. I just for the life of me cannot see how our Army is unable to field more battalions. Where are they all?

It's a good question. Are there any good publications that show the composition of Army's workforce?

 

[old faithful]

Absolutely right. I get to see some of this up close and personnel and I am constantly stunned at who is rejected by the recruiting companies after applying.

One of my workmates did most of his career in the Royal Green Jackets, now the Rifles, then came and finished his career in the ADF. Both of his sons tried to join the Army, both wanted to go to infantry, both were rejected as recruitment for infantry were only interested in female applicants at the time.
One is now a member of the SERT team in WA prisons, unsure what the other is doing.

 

[Stampede]

Another factor is the planned increase in littoral capability. This will require more crews and maintainers.

Interesting that the Army was working with US Army LSVs. These are the sort of ships that would appear to fit the DSR intent. Basing heavy armour in Darwin and having a second littoral battalion would also fit with this.

A interesting read for what may be be Army's future direction.

The Defence strategic review’s vision for the Australian Army

The recent Defence strategic review (DSR) highlights Australia’s deteriorating strategic circumstances and foreshadows the kind of Australian Defence Force (ADF) required to address future challenges. It recommends a shift from a balanced force – capable of responding

www.aph.gov.au

Time will tell.


Cheers S

 

[SiVisPacemParaBellum]

Bundeswehr: Diese Rüstungsprojekte streicht der Bund für 2023

Die Bundesregierung will die Bundeswehr modernisieren. Für 2023 streicht die Ampel laut einer vertraulichen Liste jedoch 20 Rüstungsprojekte.

www.businessinsider.de

The German Boxer CRV acquisition has been stopped for political reasons.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Bundeswehr: Diese Rüstungsprojekte streicht der Bund für 2023

Die Bundesregierung will die Bundeswehr modernisieren. Für 2023 streicht die Ampel laut einer vertraulichen Liste jedoch 20 Rüstungsprojekte.

www.businessinsider.de

The German Boxer CRV acquisition has been stopped for political reasons.

No idea what that paywalled article actually says, but they publicly stated it was going forward last week.

I know there was a bit of concern discussed back when the Redback was selected that Germany's purchase of Australian built Boxers might be effected. At least as of now it seems the acquisition is still going ahead.
Germany, Australia Sign Letter Of Cooperation For More Than 100 Boxer Heavy Weapon Carrier Infantry

 

[SiVisPacemParaBellum]

Who's announced that the deal is going forward?
The MPs have been VERY unfavorable of the Redback acquisition.
And the article states (I've got a subscribtion) that the CRV acquisition has been stopped.
It also states that it's due to a political decision since the funding is available through the 100bn special fund.