Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ueGcAep5qMPj2z1Vt4xPW5ayztQE6HZBTMzBhTXXjtXg2YeifsSc7m1CQ9hCi7wnl&id=100064801353844

Frenchie really shown effort to market all the package. From all types in this Pegase Task Force, Indonesia already commit for Rafale and A400M.

Only A330 MRTT that has not been in the committed plan yet. Airbus actually seems already offer economics solution. Indonesian government taking A330-200 from Garuda (2 or 4 of that type actually Garuda own not lessor), then GMF (Garuda MRO Subsidiary) working on conversion. In mean time Airbus hope Garuda taking A330-800 neo that already in order as replacement of that A330-200.

That's more economics way then build from new airframe. Let's see what happens.

 

[koxinga]

Yesterday's announcement from Canada on their Airbus MRTT buy, 2 of them will be conversions of existing used A330-200, which were ex-Kuwait Airway.

So Airbus is very familiar/clever with making the economics work if customer wants to buy MRTT but is budget constraint.

Canada orders more Airbus A330 tankers, hires firm to convert planes

Canada’s contract with Airbus, which covers delivery of the four new A330s and conversion of the five used aircraft, is worth about $2.7 billion.

www.defensenews.com

New Livery, New Operator: Airbus A330 Goes From Kuwait Airways To Canadian Government

Emerging with its new livery from Chateauroux, France, this ex-Kuwait Airways A330 will eventually fly for the Royal Canadian Air Force.

simpleflying.com

 

[swerve]

Actually five secondhand A330s & four new ones. It's been posted on the RCAF thread, including an announcement by Airbus yesterday

Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

The Government of Canada has awarded Airbus Defence and Space with a contract for 4 newly-built #Airbus #A330MRTT & conversion of 5 used A330-200s

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1683890015309377536

 

[Ananda]

Airbus is very familiar/clever with making the economics work if customer wants to buy MRTT but is budget constraint.

Budget always the consideration on any deals, but from what I heard on Airbus offer is basically Indonesian Government pay Garuda for their A330-200, then Garuda used the money for down payment on A330-800. While Airbus offer to supervise the conversion job in GMF facility (which basically give business back to Garuda Group).

This is more or less their offer to Indonesian government to maximise economics value and jobs toward Indonesian Government cycles (as Garuda is government owned). Off course everything back toward budgetary availability. Still Airbus quite proactive to find way on budget situation, compare to Boeing. At least that's what I see.

 

[swerve]

Yes, Airbus is willing to take a fairly small share of the income from selling an A330 conversion to MRTT. It's rational, I'd say, because a small share is better than nothing, & they'll still get income from support.

Boeing, on the other hand, seems fixated on selling new KC-46 & tries to block any tanker conversions of used 767s. For example, Brazil wanted to get some used Boeing 767s converted to tankers by IAI, or in Brazil with IAI assistance & refuelling equipment. Boeing said it'd refuse to support the aircraft, sell spares for them, etc., apparently hoping to sell new-built KC-46.

So Brazil went to Airbus. Boeing tried to get everything & ended up with nothing. Brazil has bought two secondhand A330-200 & Airbus is going to convert them.

Boeing succeeded in blocking Israeli tanker conversions of B767s, but most of the potential customers for tanker conversions of used airliners seem to be choosing Airbus rather than new KC-46. KC-46 export customers to date are Italy & Japan (both already operating KC-767, which they ordered before A330 MRTT was available) & Israel (because Airbus wasn't allowed to tender & Boeing wouldn't support any 767s converted by IAI). So really, the only tanker customer Boeing's gained is Israel, & it's lost Brazil definitely, & potentially others.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Budget always the consideration on any deals, but from what I heard on Airbus offer is basically Indonesian Government pay Garuda for their A330-200, then Garuda used the money for down payment on A330-800. While Airbus offer to supervise the conversion job in GMF facility (which basically give business back to Garuda Group).

This is more or less their offer to Indonesian government to maximise economics value and jobs toward Indonesian Government cycles (as Garuda is government owned). Off course everything back toward budgetary availability. Still Airbus quite proactive to find way on budget situation, compare to Boeing. At least that's what I see.

It's a great plan, a good solution where all parties (Airbus, Garuda, Indonesian government and TNI-AU) profit from, but sadly the Indonesian government seems to be not interested in this construction.

 

[Ananda]

sadly the Indonesian government seems to be not interested in this construction

With Airbus lobby in Indonesia, it is too soon in my opinion to say the deal not getting traction or being freeze. Just like A400M, nearly everyone already discounted A400M chances. Most think more on A330 MRTT as Airbus chances to bag the deal, even that Boeing seem that got traction with KC-46.

Suddenly it is changes and A400M got traction on the deal, potentially on the cost to LM second batch C-130J. Airbus Lobby already work long time in Indonesia, with changing administration. So it is not unlikely they can turn their chances on Indonesian defense procurement deals.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

With Airbus lobby in Indonesia, it is too soon in my opinion to say the deal not getting traction or being freeze. Just like A400M, nearly everyone already discounted A400M chances. Most think more on A330 MRTT as Airbus chances to bag the deal, even that Boeing seem that got traction with KC-46.

Suddenly it is changes and A400M got traction on the deal, potentially on the cost to LM second batch C-130J. Airbus Lobby already work long time in Indonesia, with changing administration. So it is not unlikely they can turn their chances on Indonesian defense procurement deals.

Maybe the A400M fitted more to TNI-AU requirements than the A330 MRTT and a second type of heavy airlifter/air-to-air refueller wasn't seen as urgently needed for a fleet of just 33 F-16s.
But this can maybe change in the future, because as far as i know, the KF-21 isn't compatible with the hose and drogue inflight refueling system.

 

[Ananda]

because as far as i know, the KF-21 isn't compatible with the hose and drogue inflight refueling system.

IF-21 that's supposed to be compatible with hose and drougue system. However we know the potential on different version of IFX is getting further away from reality. If they manage to pay the whole RnD portion plus investment on KF-21 for Indonesia, more likely just license production of KF-21. This is also still big "If".

Still looking on plan, say they got 24 F-15ID plus that 33 F-16 existing vs 42 Rafale plus 24 Mirage 2K (consider the whole Flankers and Hawks being taken away from operational fleet), it is still around 50:50 of Fighters use Boom vs Probe-Drouge system. MRTT is still a must if they are serious on having Tanker capabilities.

So, I guess that's seems why Airbus still pushing the MRTT envelope package offer.

 

[Ananda]

Enam Pesawat Nirawak Anka Turkish Aerospace Bakal Dirakit di Indonesia

Anka merupakan salah satu pesawat nirawak yang dikembangkan oleh Turkish Aerospace, perusahaan badan usaha milik negara Turki. Dalam waktu dekat, enam unit Anka akan tiba di Indonesia.

www.kompas.id

TAI info media during IDEF defense exhibition in Istanbul yesterday. 12 ANKA MALE UAV/UCAV is part of deal, with 6 build by TAI and another 6 in DI facility as part of tech transfer. Ironically this deal actually being plan, before Indonesia try to goes with its own MALE version Black Eagle (and subsequently put hold on the deal with TAI).

The tech problem on developing it's own indigenous MALE UAV, and the decision to speck down Black Eagle MALE UAV for civilian speck, seems then reinforce the previous delay agreement with TAI on ANKA.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Enam Pesawat Nirawak Anka Turkish Aerospace Bakal Dirakit di Indonesia

Anka merupakan salah satu pesawat nirawak yang dikembangkan oleh Turkish Aerospace, perusahaan badan usaha milik negara Turki. Dalam waktu dekat, enam unit Anka akan tiba di Indonesia.

www.kompas.id

TAI info media during IDEF defense exhibition in Istanbul yesterday. 12 ANKA MALE UAV/UCAV is part of deal, with 6 build by TAI and another 6 in DI facility as part of tech transfer. Ironically this deal actually being plan, before Indonesia try to goes with its own MALE version Black Eagle (and subsequently put hold on the deal with TAI).

The tech problem on developing it's own indigenous MALE UAV, and the decision to speck down Black Eagle MALE UAV for civilian speck, seems then reinforce the previous delay agreement with TAI on ANKA.

IPTN, LAPAN and other consortium members probably really need ToT from Turkiye to be able to develop an own MALE-UAV. Hopefully the Elang Hitam UAV project will continue in the near future.

The current administration really makes a mess of all indigenous aerospace programs. None of them is going smoothly an have started the production phase.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Enam Pesawat Nirawak Anka Turkish Aerospace Bakal Dirakit di Indonesia

Anka merupakan salah satu pesawat nirawak yang dikembangkan oleh Turkish Aerospace, perusahaan badan usaha milik negara Turki. Dalam waktu dekat, enam unit Anka akan tiba di Indonesia.

www.kompas.id

TAI info media during IDEF defense exhibition in Istanbul yesterday. 12 ANKA MALE UAV/UCAV is part of deal, with 6 build by TAI and another 6 in DI facility as part of tech transfer. Ironically this deal actually being plan, before Indonesia try to goes with its own MALE version Black Eagle (and subsequently put hold on the deal with TAI).

The tech problem on developing it's own indigenous MALE UAV, and the decision to speck down Black Eagle MALE UAV for civilian speck, seems then reinforce the previous delay agreement with TAI on ANKA.

According to this article, the contract has a value of $300 million.
The first of 6 delivered by TAI should arrive in Indonesia this year.

Indonesia to assemble Anka drones

Indonesia to assemble Anka drones In February 2023, the Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MoD) closed a deal with Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) for twelve Anka strategic Unmanne...

scramble.nl

And delivery of all the 12 Anka UAV units will be carried out 32 months after the contract becomes effective.

Indonesia signs contract to procure Anka UAVs

The Indonesian Ministry of Defense (MoD) said that it is in the process of acquiring 12 Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) Anka (Pheonix) medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE)...

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia activates next tranche of Rafale orders

Indonesia has activated the next tranche of orders for Dassault Aviation Rafale fighters, with the Southeast Asian country now holding firm commitments for 24 aircraft.

www.flightglobal.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1689618752885645312

Confirmation from Dassault that the second tranche of 18 Rafale order already in the production line schedule. Thus make total 24 of Indonesian Rafale order, already in production lineup (order backlog).

Second tranche of 18 Rafale for Indonesia enters into the order backlog - Press kits

As part of the contract signed by Indonesia for the acquisition of 42 Rafale, the second tranche of 18 Rafale came into force today. © Dassault Aviation

www.dassault-aviation.com

 

[Ananda]

I put my screen shoot from PT. LEN video in their FB. This shown LEN Board goes to DI facility (as now DI is LEN subsidiary), to inspect DI Indigenous MALE UAV Black Eagle. This project seems on hold, but now there's indication it will be move forward again.

2.5K views | Hi #SobatLen , Pada 9 Agustus 2023, Direktur Utama DEFEND ID Bapak Bobby Rasyidin dan Direktur Teknologi dan Manajemen Portofolio DEFEND ID Ibu Amalia Maya Fitri mengunjungi PT Dirgantara Indonesia untuk melaksanakan Monitoring dan Evaluasi pesawat MALE (Medium Altitude Long Endurance). Untuk lebih lengkapnya, yuk kita cek video berikut ini sobat! #LenDefenceSolution #LenDefence #LenTechnology #DefendAndInnovate #ProtectingTomorrow #DefendTheFuture #MALE | PT Len Industri - Persero

Hi #SobatLen , Pada 9 Agustus 2023, Direktur Utama DEFEND ID Bapak Bobby Rasyidin dan Direktur Teknologi dan Manajemen Portofolio DEFEND ID Ibu Amalia Maya Fitri mengunjungi PT Dirgantara Indonesia...

www.facebook.com

Perhaps this is related with DI-TAI deal on ANKA MALE UAV. I suspect one of the 'offset' with TAI is to help DI and other Indonesian Consortium members on finishing touch with Black Eagle UAV. In the picture back ground shown the control modules.

Pertemuan dengan TUSAS Engine Industries (TEI) yang bergerak dibidang Engine Assembly and Testing & Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul dibidang aviation. Pertemuan tersebut dalam rangka menghadiri pemberian support letter dan penandatanganan Minutes of Meeting antara PT. Nusantara Turbin Propulsi, terkait persetujuan TEI untuk mendukung PT. NTP dalam hal:
a) Joint-work Assembly engine T700 untuk rencana pengadaan pesawat black hawk di Kemhan RI.

Direktorat Jenderal Potensi Pertahanan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id

Above is from Indonesian MinDef site that elaborate the agreement that Indonesian MIC signed with Turkish MIC. One of that is between DI Turbine Subsidiary with Turkey TUSAS Engine Industry on assembly of T700 turboprop engine for Black Hawk UAV. Personally I believe some mistakes on utilisation of T-700 for MALE UAV, as even ANKA use smaller one (T-170).
Note:
Sorry put it as correction, as seems Nusantara Turbine and TEI agreement for T-700 related to plan procurement of S-70 Blackhawks, not UAV.

Still it shown Indonesia looking toward Turkiye on developing their own UAV tech.

On other issue:

Twitter guy video channel claim that UK officially offering ex RAF C-130J-30 to Indonesia. This already in speculation for some time, as I also point out before in this thread. This related to TNI-AU now build 3 C-130 sq with 2 using C-130H and 1 using C-130J. Usual TNI-AU C-130 sq is for 10-12 aircraft each.

Since the 3rd sq at this moment only have 5 new C-130J, it is speculate they'll need another at least batch of 5. With budget already stretch on recent procurement, getting a batch of 5 ex RAF C-130J-30 is going to be fitting with budget availability. Even that, I suspect some other projects will be give in/sacrifice/postpone.

 

[Ananda]

Deal! Disaksikan Prabowo, RI akan Beli 24 Jet Tempur F-15EX

Menteri Pertahanan Prabowo Subianto memastikan Indonesia memboyong pesawat tempur F-15EX.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Prabowo seems got green light to pursue deal with Boeing for F-15EX. It is not 36 but 24, as he mentions before in one of his presentation in Indonesian National Police Academy (put that in this thread before). This is still MOU, means if he didn't win next election and replace Jokowi, it still can be cancelled as unlike deal with Dasault on Rafale, it is not contractually binding yet.

Well if he wins, better think how to support F-15EX operationally. With Rafale, they better triple TNI-AU operational budget to able them operate those assets properly.

Add:
From Boeing site,

Indonesia Announces Commitment to Acquire Boeing F-15EX

boeing.mediaroom.com

Discover Popular Videos | Facebook

Video is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Watch the latest reels, discover original shows and catch up with your favorite creators.

fb.watch

 

[Ananda]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0AznWgtrBR8kC8Mt87NybKVfgMmUjLZFRS7GxKf6xtzUjrwqdfF4srJLkyBabmcJCl&id=100034744016794&mibextid=NOb6eG

From DI FB pages, on DI and Sikorsky/LM sign agreement for DI involvement on S-70M MRO (including customization) and potential aero structure. This path way for Sikorsky to be back into TNI procurement and Inventory. Last Sikorsky in TNI inventory is S-58 Twin pack.

 

[Arji]

Ananda, I think the twitter guy is upset about the decision to choose f-15.

 

[Ananda]

If we see Twitter guy tweet (or X now days) or his you tube channel, now full of complaining . He is complaining that Arrowhead 140 frigate will mostly use Turkiye weapons and electronics. He's talking US won't give the best equipment for Indonesia.

He will complaining if the order not coming to Franchie or Euro OEM. Incidently he is also the one that talking Arrowhead 140 will not get Aster, (as he is sore Babcock that got the deal not NG), now he is complaining the missiles could be Turkish ones. He call 'Turkification' of that Frigate. Choosing F-15 is not in his agenda on hoping to get more Rafale in order. Perhaps he is aiming for 72 instead 42 Rafale, which means no F-15.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694136532347801837

He's saying that Boeing (now perhaps LM/Sikorsky) Tech transfer can not be absorb by Indonesian MIC, as current MIC capabilities is bellow in the 90's (especially DI). He has a point that DI now capabilities is about lower then IPTN in 90's. However when talking about Dasault or Thales tech transfer, he was showing off on Frenchie seriousness as dependable partner.

Well what can you expect from Salesman. Just Indonesian enthusiasts and media that still call him. "expert".

 

[Ananda]

Discover Popular Videos | Facebook

Video is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Watch the latest reels, discover original shows and catch up with your favorite creators.

fb.watch

From MinDef FB, stating that the deal is for 24 S-70M of GFA version. I suspect this is for Army (TNI-AD) flight regiment (Penerbad). So I guess GFA perhaps Ground Attack version. Anyway those who prepare the video in MinDef also include shoots from Leonardo and Airbus helicopters. Seems they don't have enough videos on S-70M to lengthen Video time.

Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia

www.kemhan.go.id

Also MinDef site stating that. So seems Prabowo already got green light during visit to US for begin procurement process for 24 F-15IDN and 24 S-70M.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It is in my opinion remarkable that the army with their large Bell 412 fleet wants UH-60s instead of CH-47Fs. For many years they were wishing for something like the MV-22 or CH-47.

Btw..."Perjanjian Kerja Sama"...that sounds like its still far away from a real contract, maybe not even close to a MoU.

And i have my doubts that "GFA-version" means an armed variant. I can't find anything about it, but according to Sikorsky/Lockheed-Martin: "S-70M is a third-generation Black Hawk helicopter featuring a digital cockpit, GE 701D engines, and wide chord rotor blades for increased levels of safety, performance, maneuverability, and situational awareness."


Edit:
Btw, about the F-15EX, that seems to be an official MoU.

Indonesia signs MOU with Boeing for F-15EX

The Indonesian government has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Boeing for the acquisition of 24 F-15EX fighter aircraft.

www.janes.com

Indonesia to buy Boeing’s F-15 jets, Lockheed’s Black Hawk helicopters

Indonesia has an ongoing need for new combat aircraft as it seeks to better defend the airspace of its estimated 18,000 islands.

www.defensenews.com