Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[John Newman]

Would probably make a good R&D and Trg Platform for unmanned systems, a lot more room, better facilities, accommodation etc than trying to use an OPV or a MFU.

First time I saw a photo (many years ago) of these type of Offshore Support Vessels, I thought they were real ugly ducks!

But then, also many years ago, I was down at Garden Island (FBE) and saw one in the flesh close up, was either Ocean Protector or Ocean Shield.

I then realised they were designed for a purpose, heli pad mounted high up over the bow, very large rear deck/work area, and large heavy cranes over that deck area too.

On top of that they are very big girls, 100m+, 6000t-8000t, built for tough demanding conditions.

For a ship that size they appear to be relatively cheap (second hand, but not too old).

Their future replacements can be built here (there were plans in the 2020 DSP, for one to be replaced by a ship built at Henderson).

Anyway, if they do the job, and do it on the cheap, fine by me.

 

[Redlands18]

First time I saw a photo (many years ago) of these type of Offshore Support Vessels, I thought they were real ugly ducks!

But then, also many years ago, I was down at Garden Island (FBE) and saw one in the flesh close up, was either Ocean Protector or Ocean Shield.

I then realised they were designed for a purpose, heli pad mounted high up over the bow, very large rear deck/work area, and large heavy cranes over that deck area too.

On top of that they are very big girls, 100m+, 6000t-8000t, built for tough demanding conditions.

For a ship that size they appear to be relatively cheap (second hand, but not too old).

Their future replacements can be built here (there were plans in the 2020 DSP, for one to be replaced by a ship built at Henderson).

Anyway, if they do the job, and do it on the cheap, fine by me.

Having several of these type of Ships in ADV and or ABPF service makes a lot of sense, operate them as Civilian vessels with civilian crews in peace time, being owned by the Australian Government, they could be rapidly commissioned in War Time, could even be fitted with a CIWS without chewing up to much room. Useful as supply ships, even some capability for Amphibious ops. They have something like 20,000nm range, a very small crew as well as some decent accommodation for extra personnel.

 

[ngatimozart]

First time I saw a photo (many years ago) of these type of Offshore Support Vessels, I thought they were real ugly ducks!

But then, also many years ago, I was down at Garden Island (FBE) and saw one in the flesh close up, was either Ocean Protector or Ocean Shield.

I then realised they were designed for a purpose, heli pad mounted high up over the bow, very large rear deck/work area, and large heavy cranes over that deck area too.

On top of that they are very big girls, 100m+, 6000t-8000t, built for tough demanding conditions.

For a ship that size they appear to be relatively cheap (second hand, but not too old).

Their future replacements can be built here (there were plans in the 2020 DSP, for one to be replaced by a ship built at Henderson).

Anyway, if they do the job, and do it on the cheap, fine by me.

HMNZS Manawanui is one, ex Edda Fonn (IIRC Norwegian) and it has brought a ton of extra capability to the RNZN. I think in the future such vessels maybe the way to go. I don't know if attempting to build your own is the best and most cost efficient option, because they are specialist ships and setting up a production line just for two is definitely the expensive way to go about it.

 

[John Newman]

HMNZS Manawanui is one, ex Edda Fonn (IIRC Norwegian) and it has brought a ton of extra capability to the RNZN. I think in the future such vessels maybe the way to go. I don't know if attempting to build your own is the best and most cost efficient option, because they are specialist ships and setting up a production line just for two is definitely the expensive way to go about it.

Yes these types of ships are probably cheaper coming from Europe, especially when the basic hull is fabricated in an Eastern European shipyard (Damen for example), and then fitted out in a Western European shipyard.

But it’s not just two ships that will eventually need replacement, it’s four.

Three for Navy and one for Border Force, if it’s four ships, they may share a ‘common’ basic hull design, but fitted with differing mission modules?

Could even be a fifth if you cheap Kiwi bastards look for a future replacement too!

 

[spoz]

Will presumably continue to enrichen Teekay, presumably. Stoker, Bezant, Sycamore, Reliant, Mercator and now this one. Isn’t it time we started thinking about an RFA type organisation rather than contributing to corporate profits? Throw in Supply and Stalwart as well probably if you went that way. Eight ships in a fleet would make the RAN about the biggest employer of Australian merchant sailors. Although I do have concerns about the precedents being set in the minds of Government.

Mind you, if the bit about Teekay looking for crew in the Phillipines is correct that just about rules us out, I imagine. Maybe a gift to someone?

 

[CJR]

But it’s not just two ships that will eventually need replacement, it’s four.

Three for Navy and one for Border Force, if it’s four ships, they may share a ‘common’ basic hull design, but fitted with differing mission modules?

Ocean Shield + Ocean Protector + Reliant + the newbie... And potentially using a common hull for the replacements for Stoker and Bezant?

Six ships without considering any future motherships to various unmanned systems; producing two or three as southern ocean patrol vessels or the same hull as the basis of a replacement for RV Investigator...

Edit: And the Seppos are playing round with an Offshore Support Vessel as a testbed for their new light/medium landing ship... If that works out and Australia is interested in a similar approach then you could add several more vessels to the queue...

 

[ngatimozart]

Could even be a fifth if you cheap Kiwi bastards look for a future replacement too!

Of course we are cheap. That's one of the reasons why we don't like Aussie beer

 

[Pusser01]

Defence likes it’s Offshore Support Vessels, appears that another one has been procured:

Has Defence purchased another Offshore Support Vessel? - Australian Defence Magazine

Defence may have procured another second-hand offshore support vessel (OSV) from overseas ahead of the government's formal response to the DSR being made public.

www.australiandefence.com.au

Sounds like another bargain, reportedly to be $60m (in Defence budget terms, that’s a few loose coins found down the back of the lounge).

This one has reportedly been named ‘Guidance’.

That will make four now, ADV Ocean Protector, ADV Reliant and of course ABFC Ocean Shield operated by Border Force.

Interesting.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the "new" Undersea Support Vessel. Sorry but the article is behind a paywall. Subscribe to The Australian | Newspaper home delivery, website, iPad, iPhone & Android apps

Personally I had hoped that the MPV Everest might have been in the running. I imagine it would have cost more than the $155 million mentioned in the article. Cheers

MPV Everest | Ice Class Multipurpose Construction Vessel (mcs.nl)

 

[Scott Elaurant]

The Navy’s ADV Reliant is already proving useful in more ways than one. It recovered the downed MH90.

Australia's MRH-90 Taipan helicopter fleet is back flying after 'risk mitigation' following Jervis Bay ditching

The Australian Army's Taipan helicopters return to flying after an incident last month where one of the European-designed aircraft was forced to ditch into the sea on the NSW South Coast.

www.abc.net.au

This photo shows how useful that crane is.

 

[Redlands18]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the "new" Undersea Support Vessel. Sorry but the article is behind a paywall. Subscribe to The Australian | Newspaper home delivery, website, iPad, iPhone & Android apps

Personally I had hoped that the MPV Everest might have been in the running. I imagine it would have cost more than the $155 million mentioned in the article. Cheers

MPV Everest | Ice Class Multipurpose Construction Vessel (mcs.nl)

Defence spends $110 million on second-hand commercial vessel for undersea military operations - ABC News
Looks like we have some confirmation from the ABC.

 

[spoz]

Yes, daltz has apparently confirmed. A bit more on the ship here: BalticShipping.com. Medium ugly (see the RN discussion).

 

[InterestedParty]

Is there an operational issue/benefit between the two different heli-deck arrangements on these support vessels
HMNZS Manawanui has the deck on the bow as part of the hull whereas the ADV ships have them raised high in the air, above the bridge level, almost like a sun visor

 

[spoz]

Pays your money and takes your choice. More spray (and possibly green water) in Manawanui, more roll and the possibility of a larger deck in the others. Although there is no doubt about which looks best!

 

[John Newman]

Defence spends $110 million on second-hand commercial vessel for undersea military operations - ABC News
Looks like we have some confirmation from the ABC.

Good old Andrew Greene/ABC reporting (cough, choke, spit!).

A few days prior ADM had an article about this ship and quotes a sale price of approx A$60m.

The ABC reports a few days later and has a headline price of $110m, but in the guts of the article quotes $60m.

So Andrew Greene/ABC, which is it? $110m or $60m? And you got to love the way Greene always sensationalises his articles by saying: ‘The ABC can reveal...’ and ‘secret approval for the purchase...’

Anyway.....

 

[WaveWalker]

Probably $60m USD by given that Solstad Offshore announced it from Norway. That would leave $20m AUD for inspection, and and modification work. A lot more realistic than personal attacks on Greene.

 

[John Newman]

Probably $60m USD by given that Solstad Offshore announced it from Norway. That would leave $20m AUD for inspection, and and modification work. A lot more realistic than personal attacks on Greene.

Mate,

There’s an old saying “put brain in gear before putting mouth (or fingers) in motion”, you should try it.

The ADM article specifically said “approximately A$60m”, not just $60m or USD$60m.

Has Defence purchased another Offshore Support Vessel? - Australian Defence Magazine

Defence may have procured another second-hand offshore support vessel (OSV) from overseas ahead of the government's formal response to the DSR being made public.

www.australiandefence.com.au

Just to add to that is this article:

Sale of vessel - Normand Jarl - Solstad

Skudeneshavn, Norway, 12 December 2022 – Normand Ships AS, a wholly owned subsidiary of Solstad Offshore ASA (Solstad Offshore, OSE: SOFF), have sold the CSV Normand Jarl to a Buyer outside of the offshore industry.

www.solstad.com

That article mentions the sale price as NOK 420m. If you do an NOK to AUD exchange rate, it end up as approx A$60m.

And by the way, the ‘due diligence inspection’ was reported to be $100,000.

As for Greene, I’ll say what I like, he has been called out here on DT many times over the years, and not just by me either.

Anyway, just remember the bit about putting brain in gear first, ok?

 

[WaveWalker]

So you’re saying personal attacks are reasonable on a so called professional forum? Perhaps you need assess your your political bias and bullying? Or is that still acceptable here? Or is that the way you deal with people who don’t agree with you?
Like I’ve said here before, little wonder no one wants to join the ADF with that sort of attitude still prevalent.

@WaveWalker There is no need to go down this path. If you have a problem with a post use the "Report Post" function or take it up with the original poster via PM.

Ngatimozart.

 

[John Newman]

So you’re saying personal attacks are reasonable on a so called professional forum? Perhaps you need assess your your political bias and bullying? Or is that still acceptable here? Or is that the way you deal with people who don’t agree with you?
Like I’ve said here before, little wonder no one wants to join the ADF with that sort of attitude still prevalent.

You’re being a bit too precious aren’t you?

You fired a shot at me and you missed, I did my homework on the price of the ship, you didn’t, you made an assumption, and were wrong.

As for my comment about Greene, he is a public figure in the media, and at times he and other journalists who write Defence articles need to be called out.

 

[StoresBasher]

So you’re saying personal attacks are reasonable on a so called professional forum? Perhaps you need assess your your political bias and bullying? Or is that still acceptable here? Or is that the way you deal with people who don’t agree with you?
Like I’ve said here before, little wonder no one wants to join the ADF with that sort of attitude still prevalent.

No, there are many reasons for the decline in people wanting to join the ADF, but this is not one of them.

 

[MARKMILES77]

Will presumably continue to enrichen Teekay, presumably. Stoker, Bezant, Sycamore, Reliant, Mercator and now this one. Isn’t it time we started thinking about an RFA type organisation rather than contributing to corporate profits? Throw in Supply and Stalwart as well probably if you went that way. Eight ships in a fleet would make the RAN about the biggest employer of Australian merchant sailors. Although I do have concerns about the precedents being set in the minds of Government.

Mind you, if the bit about Teekay looking for crew in the Phillipines is correct that just about rules us out, I imagine. Maybe a gift to someone?

An Australian RFA sounds like an excellent idea.
Are the crews on Stoker, Bezant, Sycamore Reliant etc required to be Australian Citizens? Sounds like they are not.
If not how are security issues dealt with?
For example if one of these vessels was acting as a tender for trials of the new UUVs being developed, or supporting a Special Forces training mission.