RegR,
Amongst the world’s people, apparently very few want war. It’s not just our idea. The threshold may be lower in places but I dear say even the murdering and rapist Conscriptizz invading Ukraine would prefer peace. Not wanting to sound too alarmist, however, those freedom loving imperialist totalitarians in China and Russia may not actually care what the people want.
Although Kiwis can repeat our national mantra of ‘war isn’t our style, not really our bag, baby’ a gazzilion times, that doesn’t mean this will magically make it so; and that jaw-jaw will always work. The major beef I have is that we as a nation used to honour, in the best sense, our warriors and why they were part of our world wide Statecraft. The only reason we are able to indulge in our trendy, immature, isolationist, peace-mongering ways is due to the sacrifices of our tribal warriors and the citizen-soldiers contribution to a collective greater defence.
You tragically confuse nuclear strategy, direct invasion, and the Great Game (ie. Soft Power, geo-strategy, Deterrence) which is currently being played in our region. Refer to Prof Anne-Marie Brady or the vast evidence of CCP influence/interference in the South Pacific and Australia. To say nothing of Africa or the obvious CCP calve-up of the Deep South.
I applaud your humour in thinking that we currently have any war fighting capability and that the options for better balance are a few more token ships or all the way to 100 battalions and submarines. Like your CCP invasion of NZ theme, you are in equal measures both absurd and defeatist/pacifist. Likewise, like Finland or South Korea we have the innate manpower to operate the necessary equipment once we put some thought into it.
National statesmanship would have us remember that we need our Allies, whilst playing in the UN lalaland of Hope. That is being mature, like Singapore or Australia, whilst whistling ‘ban the Bomb, land mines, hurtful words’. NZ does not need to act like the worlds chavist used-car salesman, dumping unprocessed Primary to all, to try and make people like us. Using a historical (which I do love so much because it gives us all a fact based narrative not some students dream) analogy, that would be like us trading with Hitler or the Qing Density despite our moral compass.
One of the primary duties of the state is to provide security for its citizens to grow and prosper. It seems that you and our current political leadership have abandoned this as either an extravagance (ignorance) or not our problem (bludgers) or simply too ugly so we will just give it a good ignoring (isolationist).
Chin chin buddy
Ahh what are you even on about?? You may want to read back through the thread there, buddy, you "tragically confuse" literally everything I've said, and I have no clue what you are on about re nuclear strategy?? I'm not the one advocating more frigates, battalions or submarines I'm the one asking why would we need more frigates, battalions, submarines etc etc, as in actually why? when tbh we barely use the ones we have and the reply so far is maybe China (yourself included it would seem) so then again I ask, based on what precedence? Oh ze Germans, as in the 1940s Germans....China has barely even left their own country and I'm expected to believe we need to drastically increase our military capability because, maybe?? Righto. Yes of course those before us fought in wars, our allies wars, and we still are today, so what exactly are you upset about? When has NZ asked anyone to go to war? We havnt, and we most likely never will because we don't start them, yet ironically we've been involved in almost every conflict since to some degree, again, supporting our allies, which I have no issue with as that's what allies do. What I do take issue with is when those "allies" then say they are having to protect NZ?? So I ask the when's, why's and how's, and turns out it's, maybe China....and if China ever did kick off in Taiwan then we will no doubt partake in another war, the fact we may not be conducting bombing runs in jets or sending in a fleet of frigates vs say, a frigate is not really the point is it because yea, that is the people we are. That's the thing about history to remember, it actually begins from now not conveniently 80 years ago.
China are literally doing nothing no one else is doing in "our region"?? Growing military capability, forward basing, forging alliances, new technology, over matching it's peer, securing it's interests blah blah blah (sound familiar?) difference being China is ultimately still in China in ITS region (actual), and like I've already said we would do the same if Chinese carrier groups were increasingly sailing around our EEZ routinely skirting the east coast of NZ? (In international waters of course) Of course we would!! Tit for tat is nothing new and thats how races start, but who started it again?
Do you not feel safe in NZ right now? Have you not grown or prospered? I feel just the same as I did 30, 40 years ago tbh security wise, bit of an inflation issue atm but that's worldwide I've heard not NZ specific due to, maybe China. I havn't abandoned anything, I've just lived the past 40 on the way to 50 years raised (literally) on the maybe China's and prior to that maybe Russia's and just realised maybe, what?
And BTW, no, we actually don't have the innate manpower to operate the necessary equipment, kinda the whole point, more equipment would merely be futile and pointless, something I can't seem to get across and this being after years of "us" putting thought into it as well....
Buddy
I'm more of a league man myself.
