The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
I'm pretty sure about half the height is below deck, happy to stand corrected though. I'm sure I have seen a photo of the Mk-13 being lifted out for upgrade and the section sunk below deck was white. I may ask the old and bolds at work because now I need to know.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
A summary on UK submarine history with emphasis on the Astute program. As the article mentions, a good boat eventually got developed but the number produced is too low. For the RAN, how difficult will it be to fit a PW3 reactor into the Astute design?
That shouldn't be as much of a challenge as it might look -Successor (the deterrent boat) uses the same overall hull design as Astute -so, basically, take Successor, chop out the missile compartment and redo the buoyancy calculations and you might not be too far adrift.A summary on UK submarine history with emphasis on the Astute program. As the article mentions, a good boat eventually got developed but the number produced is too low. For the RAN, how difficult will it be to fit a PW3 reactor into the Astute design?
PWR3 is a few meters longer than PWR2 basically, but fits into the same diameter reactor compartment I believe.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
If no change in hull diameter is required for the PWR3 then that certainly makes the project less risky for Australia should the Astute SSN be decided upon.
As far as I understand it, yes - there was a definite decision way back and the UK decided it could not afford to do two sub designs and that the Astute would form the basis for the Successor boat. Given that Astute has a very modern hull form designed to defeat active sonar, I'd imagine that trying to conserve as much of that as possible in the trident replacements makes sense.
I'm wondering if there might be some convenient fiction around sending Australian workers to Barrow to get them worked up on the construction steps, and calling that Australian build might be possible ?
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Great news that we will have some ocean surveillance ships fairly soon. This was an important capability previously neglected it seems largely out of wishful thinking.
OldTex
Well-Known Member
The article also mentions a second commercial vessel (MV Island Crown) which has also been purchased to operate as a mother ship for RN autonomous mine warfare boats. As this role was much discussed with regard to the roles of the Type 32 frigates it may be seen either as removing that role from the future frigate or as an initial step in developing the role, TTPs and SOPs to better inform the design aspects for the Type 32. Time will tell.
Great news that we will have some ocean surveillance ships fairly soon. This was an important capability previously neglected it seems largely out of wishful thinking.
the concerned
Active Member
If the Astute design is chosen by the RAN what are the chances of the RN going for a few more subs themselves.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Very little, their main concentration now is on building the Dreadnought class SSBNs, which are twice the size of the Astute's. They are planning on building 8 SSN(R) to replace the 7 Astutes after the Dreadnoughts.
OldTex
Well-Known Member
The Astute line at Barrow is to all effects closed. This is due to the construction shifting to the Dreadnought class (SSBN) for the RN. While the Astute design is a very good design, it would require substantial redesign as the PWR2 reactors are no longer available. RR shifted to work on the PWR3 for the Dreadnoughts, as they could only support a single production.
If any design from the UK was to be considered it would have to be a modified Dreadnought (as a replacement of the Astute) which won't be happening any time soon.
What Redlands18 said (while I was typing).
I've seen suggestions that an Astute hull would need less modification to take PWR3 than Dreadnought would need to turn into an SSN. Supposedly, PWR3 is significantly bigger than PWR2 in only one dimension, & should fit an Astute hull lengthened by a few metres.
Having one mother ship for RN autonomous mine warfare boats would mean that the RN could only operate those boats in one area. I think that'd not be desirable. Distributing that capability across several ships seems something we should obviously have. I hope (& think it likely) that your second option is the correct one.
OldTex
Well-Known Member
I would see the commercial vessel as a 'proof of concept' platform. Whether additional commercial vessels are procured to allow operations in multiple locations, or more preferable would be the inclusion of the developed capability into a later class of warship. Which path the UK Government will choose and how quickly they implement a decision will be the herd of elephants in the room for many years to come.
None - Astute is a closed book for the RN. Hopefully we'll be back up to 8 with SSNR.
OldTex
Well-Known Member
Naval News has an article which sheds some light on what the SSN(R) might look like. It is likely to include a vertical launcher system. The merits of VLS, is reported as being a point of discussion within British defense community. The choice not to fit them to the Astute Class set them apart from the contemporary U.S. Navy Virginia Class in its later form with the VPM. As the SSN(R) won't start construction until near the end of the Dreadnought class build there will be opportunities to enhance or change the design to suit emerging systems.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
I have speculated that the ideal submarine for AUKUS would be an SSGN with hypersonics as well as cruise missiles. Australian involvement could bankroll and accelerate the UK SSN(R) program. Aussie money increases UK industrial capacity at RR for reactors, first few Aussie boats use UK sourced common to Dreadnought sections while Australia starts building the unique SSNR sections.
Same time, Australia develops SSN maintenance capability to support all AUKUS members in the Indo Pacific.
Same time, Australia develops SSN maintenance capability to support all AUKUS members in the Indo Pacific.