The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

hauritz

Well-Known Member
All sides exaggerate their claims and in this case that could still mean hundreds of casualties. I am not sure the Ukrainians or Russian even know for sure. I remember the old Battle of Britain movie when a minister asked the Air Marshall if he could verify the casualties being claimed against the Germans and he responded

“If we're right, they'll give up. If we are wrong, they'll be in London in a week!”
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Unless a full btln was in one location, with support assets. Russia has caused similar numbers of casualties hitting Ukrainian forces in garrison. It took a while for Ukraine to learn the lesson and disperse forces. It's entirely possible that a mobilized Russian reservist officer positioned an entire btln in one large structure, far from the front line, thinking himself safe. It's really hard to be certain of anything, but the numbers are not small. Even if we're looking at 63 KIA and 4:1 WIAs, that's over 300 casualties total. I suspect 300 casualties is the bottom figure, and 700 the upper with reality somewhere in between.
Agreed.

The attack on Makiivka represents one of the largest single losses of life for Russian troops during its invasion. And while it is impossible to verify either number, one prominent Russian blogger says the actual death count is far more than what the Russian MoD says.

“The number of dead and wounded goes to many hundreds,” wrote Igor Girkin, a Russian Army veteran who played a key role in the annexation of Crimea and now has more than 766,000 Telegram subscribers.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update. Dec 5th-7th

Kherson-Nikolaev-Krivoy Rog-Odessa.

Russian strikes hit Krivoy Rog. One of the targets was apparently Kirovorozhstal', a major metallurgical factory. Some of the munitions used were Iskander-K.


Russian strikes hit Odessa. At least some of the targets were power grid substations. Blackouts are being reported.


Battle damage in Kherson, allegedly recent Russian strikes.


Zaporozhye-Dnepropetrovsk.

Russian Shahed-136 strikes on Dnepropetrovsk.


The North.

Russian strikes landing in Kiev.


Ukrainian air defenses firing over Kiev.


Russian cruise missile downed near Kiev. Unclear if shot down or failed due to technical difficulties.


Oskol Front.

Allegedly a Ukrainian tank getting taken out near Svatovo.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
LDNR Front.

A failed Ukrainian attack on Somalia btln, they allegedly lost an M-113, and 3 armored cars.


LNR forces on the Lisichansk axis using thermals to locate and hit Ukrainian infantry.


DNR forces and Russian irregulars use MBTs, UAVs, and an ATGM team to attack a Ukrainian strong point.


A Ukrainian BMP-1 and 2 getting hit near Artemovsk/Bakhmut.


Ukrainian forces evacuating a WIA using a hand-cart similar to what we saw Russian forces using near Mayorsk.


Footage from Ukrainian trenches in Artemovsk/Bakhmut. The soldiers are pessimistic, and report much destruction of the city.


A Russian Su-34 went down near Artemovsk/Bakhmut, reportedly the pilots died.


Russian army 2S4s firing on Artemovsk/Bakhmut in support of Wagner fighters.


Allegedly this is a photo of the Ukrainian pilot who flew the MiG-29 we saw escorting a pair of Su-25s in a recent video near Artemovsk/Bakhmut.. He was allegedly shot down along with one of the Su-25s. Confirmation is lacking at this time.

EDIT: Apparently not. The photo is from a previous incident being accidentally or intentionally misattributed.


A Ukrainian field hospital in Artemovsk/Bakhmut. Warning graphic footage.


Battle damage inside Artemovsk. It appears there are still civilians in the city, and working emergency services.


Russian use of incendiaries near Avdeevka.


Allegedly a civilian from Kudryumovka, a village recently taken by Wagner fighters, recounts that Ukrainian forces shot her sons because she took too long to produce her passport (note Ukraine like Russia uses an "internal passport" as a national ID card).


Russian strike hit Kramatorsk, a factory, where allegedly Ukrainian munitions were being stored. Extensive fires followed.


Russian strike on Kurakhovo, Donestk region, reportedly caused civilian casualties 8 killed, 5 wounded.


Alchevsk got hit by a Ukrainian strike, allegedly HIMARS, civilian casualties are reported as 10 killed, 23 wounded.


Overrun Ukrainian positions in Mar'inka. Russian forces have been inching forward street by street there. Warning footage of corpses.


Some footage from the center part of Mar'inka, Ukrainian side. The city is clearly in ruins.


Shelling of Donetsk continues. Notable targets include a power grid substation in the Makeevka area. A DNR Deputy of the People's Council was killed in the shelling. HARM missiles were used, which raises the question of whether Russia is also hiding SAMs in the city. So far no footage to confirm, and no evidence of SAMs hitting buildings. Warning footage of corpses.


Allegedly Ukraine also hit the hospital in Gorlovka.


Brand new T-90Ms traveling through Lugansk.


Satellite images show the demolition efforts ongoing in Mariupol'. Destroyed buildings are being torn down in preparation for reconstruction efforts.

 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia.

The Dyagilevo and Engels airfields were hit by Ukrainian strikes. I won't go over the Engels one because it was discussed in detail here, but the Dyagilev one wasn't as well covered. Here's footage confirming at least one Tu-22M3 took a serious hit. It's interesting to see that there are barriers between the aircraft to minimize damage. It's a good start but realistically Russia needs to build major protected hangars. The second link has some photos of the damage on the ground.


Russian factory Slava, in Bryansk region, got hit by a Ukrainian strike.


In Kursk region, a fuel storage facility at the airport got hit. Reportedly no casualties.


Russian mobilized personnel training on using UAVs to direct mortar fires.


Russia has begun forming territorial defense formations in Belgorod region.


Construction of defenses in Kursk region, near the Ukrainian border.


Regular traffic has resumed on the Crimean bridge.


Misc.

Russian loitering munitions hitting Ukrainian air defenses. We have two radars first, with the second not spinning suggesting it could be a decoy, except after we see crew around it. Then we have what looks like an S-300 radar on the march, and then an S-300 TEL getting hit. There are several interesting details. We see an entire column of S-300 TELs. Why not strike it with Smerch or even air? Wouldn't it make more sense to hit the column with artillery or rockets, and then use the loitering munition to finish off anything the less discriminate systems use? Instead we have a loitering munition used against a single TEL. The rest of the column is unaffected. And notice how relatively small the explosion is. Either there are no missiles in the tubes, or the tubes didn't get penetrated (my money is on the second). I suspect even the TEL that got hit isn't destroyed, just damaged. The second link has just the first two clips.


Interesting footage of a Ukrainian Leleka UAV that filmed the detonation of a Russian SAM aimed at it.


Ukrainian M-101s in action. The type is a worthy adversary to the D-1s Russia handed over to LNR forces.


Allegedly a Ukrainian Gepard downing a cruise missile, though the filming is from a afar, and it could be fake.


Two destroyed Ukrainian M1083 Oshkosh armored trucks. Location unclear. These are typically used to two M-777 howitzers.


A destroyed Ukrainian T-64BV, location, context, and date unclear. Note the greenery.


A Russian Patrul'-M MRAP-light, National Guard, got hit in Ukraine. Allegedly no injuries to the occupants.


A Russian BMP-3 got very lucky, surviving a direct hit center-top on the turret from a Javelin. Apparently the entire crew survived but the vehicle will need significant repairs.


Apparently a Ukrainian S-300 missile stage fell in Moldova. No casualties reported.


Ukrainian Caesars in action, location and context unclear.


Russian mobilized tankers training on T-80BVs.


A Ukrainian Kozak armored car in Russian use.


Russian forces have reportedly received more BMP-2Ms and BMP-1AMs on the front line.


Ukrainian Starstreak SAM, location and context unclear.


Russia and Ukraine have conducted another POW exchange, 60 for 60.


NATO/EU.


Some footage from the Czech Republic showing equipment being repaired and prepared for Ukraine.


Ukrainian personnel posing with a Polish S-125 upgrade, on a T-55 chassis. I suspect the photo was taken in Poland. The type hasn't shown up in Ukraine so far. Though Poland has transferred BMP-1s, Grads, and even Osa units to Ukraine.


A train full of M1117s passing through Romania. Reportedly 250 of the type are heading to Ukraine.

 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
600 KIA in a single event would be almost unheard of. 600 casualties, maybe.
I can think of one or two, and that's excluding the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WW1 Mines: On 7th June 1917 the British set off 19 mines hidden in tunnels under German trenches at Messines killing 10,000 German troops. This Explosion Was the Biggest Blast Before Atomic Bombs.

Shipwrecks.
SS Eastland:One of the worst maritime disasters in U.S. history occurred on July 24, 1915, when the SS Eastland capsized on the Chicago River. Packed with Western Electric employees on their way to a company picnic, the Eastland sank within yards of shore. Of the estimated 2,500 people on board at the time, more than 800 were killed.​
SS Sultana: On April 27, 1865, the deadliest maritime disaster in U.S. history occurred when the side-wheel steamship SS Sultana exploded on the Mississippi River just north of Memphis, Tennessee. The American Civil War had ended just weeks before, and repatriated Union prisoners of war, having endured hellish conditions in Confederate military prisons, were eager to return to their homes in the North. To facilitate that journey, the federal government paid steamship operators handsomely for each soldier they carried. That practice led to astonishing levels of corruption as well as neglect of the most-basic safety concerns. In the case of the Sultana, that meant cutting corners on the repair of a leaky boiler and carrying as many as 2,300 people—more than six times the vessel’s rated capacity. When the overtaxed boiler ruptured, hundreds were killed in the initial explosion, and more were trapped when the overloaded decks collapsed. Although some 1,800 people were killed, the incident was largely overshadowed in the press by the ongoing coverage of the Lincoln assassination.​
SS Kiangya: In late 1948 communist forces had gained the initiative in the Chinese Civil War, and thousands fled the Nationalist stronghold of Shanghai before the advancing People’s Liberation Army. On December 4, 1948, the SS Kiangya was officially carrying 2,150 refugees—almost double its rated capacity—but several thousand more had crowded onto the steamer before it left the docks. The ship exploded at the mouth of the Huangpu River, most likely as the result of its striking a World War II-era mine. Perhaps 1,000 passengers were rescued, but as many as 4,000 were killed in the explosion and subsequent sinking.​
RMS Lusitania: Perhaps the highest-profile casualty of Germany’s policy of unrestricted submarine warfare during World War I, the RMS Lusitania was attacked by a German U-boat on May 7, 1915, and sank in just 18 minutes. The ship was regarded as a legitimate target by the Germans, as they believed that it was being used to transport war matériel (evidence has since emerged that the Lusitania was, in fact, carrying more than 170 tons of artillery shells and ammunition at the time of its sinking). Nevertheless, the loss of 1,198 passengers, including 128 Americans, would eventually serve as casus belli for U.S. involvement in World War I.​
MV Doña Paz: Maritime traffic has played a vital role in the growth and development of Southeast Asia, and ferries transport hundreds of millions of people throughout the region each year. Accidents have been far too common an occurrence, however; in the 21st century alone, international regulatory agencies documented some 17,000 fatalities as a result of ferry sinkings in Southeast Asian waters. The worst such accident—indeed, the deadliest civilian maritime disaster in history—occurred on December 20, 1987, when the passenger ferry MV Doña Paz collided with the oil tanker MT Vector in the Tablas Strait, roughly 110 miles (180 km) south of Manila. Eager to reach their destinations prior to the Christmas holiday, an estimated 4,300 people (more than double the ship’s official capacity) had crowded onto the Doña Paz prior to its departure from Tacloban, Philippines. At the time of the collision, no senior officers were on the bridge of the Doña Paz, the Vector was traveling without a lookout, and it is likely that both ships lacked a functioning radio. Despite clear visibility and relatively calm seas, neither ship gave any indication that it was aware of the other. The collision ignited the 8,800 barrels of oil and gasoline on the Vector, and both ships were quickly engulfed in the blaze. Of the more than 4,400 passengers and crew on both ships, just 26 people were rescued from the oil-slicked waters.​
MV Wilhelm Gustloff: The MV Wilhelm Gustloff was the pride of the Nazi Kraft durch Freude (“Strength Through Joy”) program, which provided leisure activities for German workers and served as an important propaganda tool for the Third Reich. The ocean liner carried holidaymakers on cruises of the North Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and, with the outbreak of World War II in 1939, it was converted into a hospital ship. It later served as a floating barracks and, in the closing months of the war, was called upon to evacuate German troops and civilians from East Prussia ahead of advancing Soviet armies. By that time, in accordance with the laws of war, the Wilhelm Gustloff had shed the white paint and red crosses that had marked it as a noncombatant, and the presence of troops on board and antiaircraft guns on deck made the ship a viable military target. Refugees streamed into the port of Gotenhafen (now Gdynia, Poland) in the hopes of escape, and thousands crowded onto the Gustloff. Built to accommodate 1,900 people, the ship left port on January 30, 1945, carrying an estimated 10,000. Just after 9:00 PM that evening, three torpedoes fired by a Soviet submarine slammed into the port side of the Gustloff. Ice had rendered many of the ship’s lifeboats inoperable, and the crew members best trained to deal with an evacuation had been killed in the torpedo attack or were trapped below deck. The Gustloff slipped below the frigid Baltic waves just over an hour later. Although rescue efforts began within minutes of the ship’s initial SOS call, only 1,200 people could be saved. The sinking claimed 9,000 lives, making it history’s deadliest shipwreck.​

So some examples and I also didn't include the RMS Titanic.
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The Russian MOD claims it was 63. I am taking both figures like a shot of Tequila. Salt and lime.
Why ruin perfectly good tequila :D
Ukraine’s claim is 400 killed and 300 wounded. That is a lot of people and highly unlikely. The Russian claim of 63 is more believable. Probably ~ 100 more wounded. 700 makes zero sense even if an ammunition dump took a hit.
Based on what grounds? Why do you think it highly unlikely? @Feanor and @OPSSG have covered it above. Considering your comment about an ammo dump undergoing an unplanned rapid disassembly, do you have any idea of the forces involved when an ammo dump does instantly convert itself to energy? Of course it all depends upon the size, location, and contents of the dump in question. We have seen incidences previously in this war where Russian military safety protocols in ammo dumps appear to be somewhat lacking, with the odd one exploding without Ukrainian help.
 
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ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I can think of one or two, and that's excluding the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WW1 Mines: On 7th June 1917 the British set off 19 mines hidden in tunnels under German trenches at Messines killing 10,000 German troops. This Explosion Was the Biggest Blast Before Atomic Bombs.

Shipwrecks.
SS Eastland:One of the worst maritime disasters in U.S. history occurred on July 24, 1915, when the SS Eastland capsized on the Chicago River. Packed with Western Electric employees on their way to a company picnic, the Eastland sank within yards of shore. Of the estimated 2,500 people on board at the time, more than 800 were killed.​
SS Sultana: On April 27, 1865, the deadliest maritime disaster in U.S. history occurred when the side-wheel steamship SS Sultana exploded on the Mississippi River just north of Memphis, Tennessee. The American Civil War had ended just weeks before, and repatriated Union prisoners of war, having endured hellish conditions in Confederate military prisons, were eager to return to their homes in the North. To facilitate that journey, the federal government paid steamship operators handsomely for each soldier they carried. That practice led to astonishing levels of corruption as well as neglect of the most-basic safety concerns. In the case of the Sultana, that meant cutting corners on the repair of a leaky boiler and carrying as many as 2,300 people—more than six times the vessel’s rated capacity. When the overtaxed boiler ruptured, hundreds were killed in the initial explosion, and more were trapped when the overloaded decks collapsed. Although some 1,800 people were killed, the incident was largely overshadowed in the press by the ongoing coverage of the Lincoln assassination.​
SS Kiangya:In late 1948 communist forces had gained the initiative in the Chinese Civil War, and thousands fled the Nationalist stronghold of Shanghai before the advancing People’s Liberation Army. On December 4, 1948, the SS Kiangya was officially carrying 2,150 refugees—almost double its rated capacity—but several thousand more had crowded onto the steamer before it left the docks. The ship exploded at the mouth of the Huangpu River, most likely as the result of its striking a World War II-era mine. Perhaps 1,000 passengers were rescued, but as many as 4,000 were killed in the explosion and subsequent sinking.
RMS Lusitania: Perhaps the highest-profile casualty of Germany’s policy of unrestricted submarine warfare during World War I, the RMS Lusitania was attacked by a German U-boat on May 7, 1915, and sank in just 18 minutes. The ship was regarded as a legitimate target by the Germans, as they believed that it was being used to transport war matériel (evidence has since emerged that the Lusitania was, in fact, carrying more than 170 tons of artillery shells and ammunition at the time of its sinking). Nevertheless, the loss of 1,198 passengers, including 128 Americans, would eventually serve as casus belli for U.S. involvement in World War I.​
MV Doña Paz: Maritime traffic has played a vital role in the growth and development of Southeast Asia, and ferries transport hundreds of millions of people throughout the region each year. Accidents have been far too common an occurrence, however; in the 21st century alone, international regulatory agencies documented some 17,000 fatalities as a result of ferry sinkings in Southeast Asian waters. The worst such accident—indeed, the deadliest civilian maritime disaster in history—occurred on December 20, 1987, when the passenger ferry MV Doña Paz collided with the oil tanker MT Vector in the Tablas Strait, roughly 110 miles (180 km) south of Manila. Eager to reach their destinations prior to the Christmas holiday, an estimated 4,300 people (more than double the ship’s official capacity) had crowded onto the Doña Paz prior to its departure from Tacloban, Philippines. At the time of the collision, no senior officers were on the bridge of the Doña Paz, the Vector was traveling without a lookout, and it is likely that both ships lacked a functioning radio. Despite clear visibility and relatively calm seas, neither ship gave any indication that it was aware of the other. The collision ignited the 8,800 barrels of oil and gasoline on the Vector, and both ships were quickly engulfed in the blaze. Of the more than 4,400 passengers and crew on both ships, just 26 people were rescued from the oil-slicked waters.​
MV Wilhelm Gustloff: The MV Wilhelm Gustloff was the pride of the Nazi Kraft durch Freude (“Strength Through Joy”) program, which provided leisure activities for German workers and served as an important propaganda tool for the Third Reich. The ocean liner carried holidaymakers on cruises of the North Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and, with the outbreak of World War II in 1939, it was converted into a hospital ship. It later served as a floating barracks and, in the closing months of the war, was called upon to evacuate German troops and civilians from East Prussia ahead of advancing Soviet armies. By that time, in accordance with the laws of war, the Wilhelm Gustloff had shed the white paint and red crosses that had marked it as a noncombatant, and the presence of troops on board and antiaircraft guns on deck made the ship a viable military target. Refugees streamed into the port of Gotenhafen (now Gdynia, Poland) in the hopes of escape, and thousands crowded onto the Gustloff. Built to accommodate 1,900 people, the ship left port on January 30, 1945, carrying an estimated 10,000. Just after 9:00 PM that evening, three torpedoes fired by a Soviet submarine slammed into the port side of the Gustloff. Ice had rendered many of the ship’s lifeboats inoperable, and the crew members best trained to deal with an evacuation had been killed in the torpedo attack or were trapped below deck. The Gustloff slipped below the frigid Baltic waves just over an hour later. Although rescue efforts began within minutes of the ship’s initial SOS call, only 1,200 people could be saved. The sinking claimed 9,000 lives, making it history’s deadliest shipwreck.​

So some examples and I also didn't include the RMS Titanic.
The largest single Australian loss in WW II was the sinking of the Japanese POW ship (not marked as such) Montevideo Maru where 1100 Australian personnel were lost, my Grandfather included.
Men included members of the Rabaul based 2/22 Btn and a number of New Guinea based civilians.
 

At lakes

Well-Known Member
Everyone seems to have forgotten about a wee naval battle off a place called Jutland in WW1, over 2400 went down with the Queen Mary in the opening day of the battle. The exact facts of KIA I am not sure of but the Royal Navy did lose approx 6000 on day one with the loss of three Battle Cruisers, so it is possible to lose 600 Russian Soldiers packed in all together in a building next to a ammo dump with a well placed HIMARS salvo.
One has to wonder whether the officer to put them in there has now gone down with a severe case of lead poisoning.
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
If we are dragging up horrific facts - the first day of the Somme saw 19,240 British dead.
This strike by Ukraine must undermine morale at home in Russia, and confidence in the leadership.
Aren't there scheduled elections there this year? (Not that that means anything)
Certainly a big morale boost for Ukraine
MB
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Everyone seems to have forgotten about a wee naval battle off a place called Jutland in WW1, over 2400 went down with the Queen Mary in the opening day of the battle. The exact facts of KIA I am not sure of but the Royal Navy did lose approx 6000 on day one with the loss of three Battle Cruisers, so it is possible to lose 600 Russian Soldiers packed in all together in a building next to a ammo dump with a well placed HIMARS salvo.
One has to wonder whether the officer to put them in there has now gone down with a severe case of lead poisoning.
If we are dragging up horrific facts - the first day of the Somme saw 19,240 British dead.
This strike by Ukraine must undermine morale at home in Russia, and confidence in the leadership.
MB
I forgot when the RN battleship HMS Barnham blew up in the Mediterranean during WW2. Took a sizeable number of the crew with her, then there is the KMS Bismarck in 1941. The RN light cruiser HMS Neptune that hit mines in an Italian minefield in December 1941, sinking with the loss on 767 lives and only one survivor. It was also the RNZNs greatest loss of life in one incidence with 150 RNZN officers and ratings perishing on the ship. Neptune was on its way to NZ to be commissioned into the RNZN .

The point of all this is to educate a poster who thinks that such events are not a relative occurrence in wartime, or peacetime for that matter. RMS Titanic was in 1912 after it hit an iceberg.
 

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
German ship Blucher sunk April 9, 1940 in the Norwegian Oslo fjord, estimated 900-1,000 sailors and troops dead Blücher – Store norske leksikon (snl.no) . Then there is one of the most famous of them all, the British Hood, with only 3 (known) survivors H.M.S. Hood Association-Battle Cruiser Hood -Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (hmshood.org.uk). There are several more, however one that probably should be mentioned is Japanese battleship Yamamoto that sunk 7. April 1945, 2,498 dead. Japanese battleship Yamato is sunk by Allied forces - HISTORY
One has to wonder whether the officer to put them in there has now gone down with a severe case of lead poisoning.
Perhaps, if the officer that put them there managed to avoid open windows...
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Why ruin perfectly good tequila :D

Based on what grounds? Why do you think it highly unlikely? @Feanor and @OPSSG have covered it above. Considering your comment about an ammo dump undergoing an unplanned rapid disassembly, do you have any idea of the forces involved when an ammo dump does instantly convert itself to energy? Of course it all depends upon the size, location, and contents of the dump in question. We have seen incidences previously in this war where Russian military safety protocols in ammo dumps appear to be somewhat lacking, with the odd one exploding without Ukrainian help.
E.g. the Halifax explosion in 1917. Almost 2000 killed, 9000 injured, 25,000 homeless - from a ship carrying explosives blowing up.
 

Larso66

Member
A more obscure one was the destruction of Negro Fort in 1816. Over 300 former slaves and Indians occupied a former British fort in Florida. Under pressure from slave owners in Georgia, a force of US soldiers and Creek Indians moved to capture it. A lucky cannon shot hit the fort's powder store and the entire fort was destroyed in the massive explosion. This factor particularly connects it to the event in Makiivka. Sources vary but 270 - 300 were killed according to most. It was a contributing factor to the following Seminole Wars. I imagine there were a few similar incidences in the gun powder age.

 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
The largest single Australian loss in WW II was the sinking of the Japanese POW ship (not marked as such) Montevideo Maru where 1100 Australian personnel were lost, my Grandfather included.
Men included members of the Rabaul based 2/22 Btn and a number of New Guinea based civilians.
My initial recollections were the sinking of the Leopoldville in late 1944. About 800 men from the 66th division en-route to Europe were lost from a U-boat attack.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
I think Vikingatespam was referring to land based incidents. One I can think of is the V1 that hit the Guards Chapel in June 1944. 121 were killed and 141 seriously injured, with perhaps up to 500 total casualties. A lucky hit (well unlucky) sure, but it is possible for catastrophic casualties to happen from a single event.

The mass kill in wartime is still a relatively rare event, and as another poster pointed out, mostly relegated to naval events.

Nevertheless, never underestimate the RU MOD ability to screw up.
 
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