Royal Air Force [RAF] discussions and updates

[koxinga]

Sure. But my question has nothing to do with the Argentinian's internal constraints. It has been repeated ad nauseum that they are their own enemy and I get that.

What I am asking is UK's response / option w.r.t to the Chinese supplying arms to Argentina, on credit or otherwise.

Maybe Liz visits Taiwan?

 

[STURM]

I think we can safely assume that if indeed Argentina is serious and is able to fund this purchase there is very little Britain can do to stop it. Argentina has toyed around with the idea of buying fighters for years now but this time there appears to be a greater sense of urgency.

 

[swerve]

Urgency because they'll soon not have any functional jet fighters of any kind if they don't pull their fingers out, & even Peronistas can see that there should be limits to hostility towards the armed forces, however well-founded your suspicion of their motives & reliability are.

 

[StobieWan]

Sure. But my question has nothing to do with the Argentinian's internal constraints. It has been repeated ad nauseum that they are their own enemy and I get that.

What I am asking is UK's response / option w.r.t to the Chinese supplying arms to Argentina, on credit or otherwise.

Maybe Liz visits Taiwan?

That's a "someone else's problem" I'm afraid - hence it not being addressed, The UK has comparatively little diplomatic pull with China, nor does China include British components so no option to squelch the deal via legal means. If the Argentinian government wants to buy Chinese, there's little we can do but send them a sternly disappointed letter indicating we might not invite them to tea for a bit.

 

[John Fedup]

At the end of the day does America want F-16s in Argentina or Chinese J-?s. I am guessing the former perhaps with a special Falklands discount for a half dozen UK F-35Bs for Falkland deployment to appease UK concerns.

 

[ngatimozart]

That's a "someone else's problem" I'm afraid - hence it not being addressed, The UK has comparatively little diplomatic pull with China, nor does China include British components so no option to squelch the deal via legal means. If the Argentinian government wants to buy Chinese, there's little we can do but send them a sternly disappointed letter indicating we might not invite them to tea for a bit.

Well you could have a relapse falling back on bad habits and claim Argentina as British territory. After all there is historical precedence.

 

[StobieWan]

At the end of the day does America want F-16s in Argentina or Chinese J-?s. I am guessing the former perhaps with a special Falklands discount for a half dozen UK F-35Bs for Falkland deployment to appease UK concerns.

There's an argument that politically it would be better for the UK to waive it's usual objections and allow the sale to happen, to keep Argentina from moving closer to China in terms of ties, trade etc.

I'm not sure how valid that is but in the long run, Argentina buying some early model F16's won't help them much in a fight vs a country with access to carriers, fifth gen aircraft and a capable navy equipped with SSN's.

 

[John Fedup]

If Argentina was to consider Chinese jets, I would think Argentina would demand some serious commitment wrt abuse of their fisheries. I believe Argentina has been very aggressive in repelling Chinese fishing boats.

 

[STURM]

Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says

Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's Army.

www.bbc.com

The Chinese hiring ex RAF pilots. I'm surprised the Chinese didn't start doing this as far back as decade ago and I'd also be very surprised if they aren't trying to hire ex pilots from other countries.

 

[overlander]

It was planned but not so early, it seems that New government arrives with defence cuts, not good news.

British fleet of C-130 Hercules aircraft put up for sale

The Ministry of Defence has placed its entire fleet of C-130 tactical airlifters up for sale ahead of the type being removed from service next year.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[swerve]

First we order A400M to replace C-130, though probably not enough. Then we reduce our A400M order & say we'll keep a lot of C-130J. Now we're selling those C-130J with only vague words about increasing A400M capability.

Maybe swap tranche 1 Typhoons for surplus Spanish A400M, since the Spanish are upgrading their T1s - something that's supposedly impractical for ours. ;D

 

[T.C.P]

It was planned but not so early, it seems that New government arrives with defence cuts, not good news.

British fleet of C-130 Hercules aircraft put up for sale

The Ministry of Defence has placed its entire fleet of C-130 tactical airlifters up for sale ahead of the type being removed from service next year.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

That's the Bangladesh Air force Logo

P.S- to the moderators, this is OC, please allow this.

 

[StobieWan]

First we order A400M to replace C-130, though probably not enough. Then we reduce our A400M order & say we'll keep a lot of C-130J. Now we're selling those C-130J with only vague words about increasing A400M capability.

Maybe swap tranche 1 Typhoons for surplus Spanish A400M, since the Spanish are upgrading their T1s - something that's supposedly impractical for ours. ;D

I suspect the A400M is just a bit big to get in and out of some of the fields the Herky bird needs to get access to for the SFOR work. However, if they are committed to getting the type out of service, putting them up for sale is probably a pragmatic move.

 

[StobieWan]

Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says

Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's Army.

www.bbc.com

The Chinese hiring ex RAF pilots. I'm surprised the Chinese didn't start doing this as far back as decade ago and I'd also be very surprised if they aren't trying to hire ex pilots from other countries.

Seems to be a bit more widespread than just RAF pilots apparently:

Former US military pilot who worked in China arrested in Australia | CNN

A former US military pilot and flight instructor who worked in China was arrested in Australia and faces extradition to the United States, Australian court documents and company records show.

edition.cnn.com

Given they're lobbing a quarter million GBP at people for a year, I'll have to assume we're looking at the tip of the iceberg here.

 

[STURM]

Given they're lobbing a quarter million GBP at people for a year, I'll have to assume we're looking at the tip of the iceberg here.

Indeed and it would be realistic to assume that they've also hired or plan to hire ex intel, submarine and SF types for the knowledge they can share/impart. I know I would if the decision was mine.

 

[StobieWan]

Indeed and it would be realistic to assume that they've also hired or plan to hire ex intel, submarine and SF types for the knowledge they can share/impart. I know I would if the decision was mine.

Absolutely - if they're poking away at one aspect, just as you say, they'll be looking at the entire force structure, air, sea, SFOR etc.

It does make a lot of sense, and I'm sure they're also avid collectors of memoirs, readers of blogs etc.

 

[swerve]

I suspect the A400M is just a bit big to get in and out of some of the fields the Herky bird needs to get access to for the SFOR work. However, if they are committed to getting the type out of service, putting them up for sale is probably a pragmatic move.

Yes, having the A400M as our smallest fixed-wing tactical transport does seem a little odd, but from what's been reported that's what's been decided.

 

[OldTex]

Defence Post has reported that the number of competitors for the New Medium Helicopter (NMH) program have been reduced to 4. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Airbus, and Leonardo are now waiting for the complete requirements to be released by the MoD, with the request for proposals expected to be issued in 2023. Not only will the selection of the successful supplier be interesting but so will the final number of helicopters to be supplied. Based on previous MOD programs it is almost a given that the number will be less than the maximum of 44 previously mentioned. It will also be interesting to see if the originally suggested entry into service date of 2025 will be achieved.

 

[Redlands18]

Defence Post has reported that the number of competitors for the New Medium Helicopter (NMH) program have been reduced to 4. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Airbus, and Leonardo are now waiting for the complete requirements to be released by the MoD, with the request for proposals expected to be issued in 2023. Not only will the selection of the successful supplier be interesting but so will the final number of helicopters to be supplied. Based on previous MOD programs it is almost a given that the number will be less than the maximum of 44 previously mentioned. It will also be interesting to see if the originally suggested entry into service date of 2025 will be achieved.

A couple of interesting things out of that. The NH-90 TTH did not make the cut and Boeing is competing against Leonardo with its version of a Leonardo design.

 

[StobieWan]

A couple of interesting things out of that. The NH-90 TTH did not make the cut and Boeing is competing against Leonardo with its version of a Leonardo design.

I'd take the Blackhawk in a heart beat as I believe it uses the same engines as Apache?

On delivery dates, if they're being built in the UK (which the blurb seems to suggest regarding "social impact") then we'll get them five years later than requested.