Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

[John Newman]

Until an order is actually sent, I will hold off on the celebration.

I’m a bit like you John, I’ll believe it when a contract is signed and aircraft are rolling down the LM production line.

I’m sure the Canuck political ‘spin doctors’ will be using the line that having delayed and waited this long, the end result will be that Canada will receive aircraft that are more mature and cheaper aircraft, Block 4 instead of Block 3F, etc.

But every coin has two sides.

All of the above is true, but it also comes at a cost too.

The RCAF has been forced to maintain, sustain and upgrade the old CF-18 fleet much longer than planned, plus the cost of procuring ex-RAAF F/A-18A/B which also require upgrades and modifications too.

There is no such thing as a ‘free lunch’, what you might save at one end, has already cost you at the other end.

Cheers,

 

[hauritz]

Oh the F-35 haters are having a bad week, first Germany and now Canada looks to be doing an about face.

The last couple of months has been a bit of a reality check for NATO members. The next obvious selection should be to once again follow the German lead and choose the P-8A.

 

[ngatimozart]

The last couple of months has been a bit of a reality check for NATO members. The next obvious selection should be to once again follow the German lead and choose the P-8A.

Sorry I have to laugh. That's to much reality for an Canuck cousins to take in one sitting.

 

[John Fedup]

Sorry I have to laugh. That's to much reality for an Canuck cousins to take in one sitting.

A RFI has already been issued by PWC on MPA but a purchase is likely years away. Same applies to a recent RFP on refuelling aircraft which resulted in the MRTT being the only acceptable offering but might happen sooner than P-8s.

 

[StobieWan]

Oh the F-35 haters are having a bad week, first Germany and now Canada looks to be doing an about face.

Oh, I'm sure that spiral of death will kick in any second now

Putin will be getting Christmas cards from Lockmart etc I'm sure.

 

[John Fedup]

Close call for a CF-18. Can’t really afford to lose any as F-35 deliveries are a ways off.

RCAF CF-18 Demo Pilot Saves Aircraft After Real-Life 'Top Gun' Incident at Airshow

RCAF CF-18 Demo Hits Bird in Michigan In A Scene That Seemed To Be Right Out Of 'Top Gun: Maverick'. It was like a page torn from the script of the new

theaviationist.com

 

[ngatimozart]

Close call for a CF-18. Can’t really afford to lose any as F-35 deliveries are a ways off.

RCAF CF-18 Demo Pilot Saves Aircraft After Real-Life 'Top Gun' Incident at Airshow

RCAF CF-18 Demo Hits Bird in Michigan In A Scene That Seemed To Be Right Out Of 'Top Gun: Maverick'. It was like a page torn from the script of the new

theaviationist.com

Pilot did his job and SOPs. One change of underwear and one buggered engine required.

 

[Mikeymike]

One step closer to replacing the RCAF CC-150 Polaris tanker fleet.

Canada buys two Airbus A330s for tanker conversion | ADBR

Canada’s Matériel de défense – SMA (Defence Materiel) administration announced on July 14 that it has acquired two Airbus A330s from AirFinance Corporation for the Royal Canadian Air Force’s (RCAF)…

adbr.com.au

Canada Finalizes Acquisition of Strategic Tanker Transport Capability (STTC) Fleet

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Canada moves forward with the acquisition of aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Today, Defence Minister Anita Anand announced that Canada has finalized a contract to acquire the first two aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) that will replace and renew the capability currently fulfilled by the CC-150 Polaris fleet and later become part of the Strategic Tanker...

www.canada.ca

Interesting that the ADBR article says one is to be fitted with a VIP suite, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else. That would make sense as both the UK and Australia already do this but haven't seen anything about it elsewhere.

 

[ngatimozart]

One step closer to replacing the RCAF CC-150 Polaris tanker fleet.

Canada buys two Airbus A330s for tanker conversion | ADBR

Canada’s Matériel de défense – SMA (Defence Materiel) administration announced on July 14 that it has acquired two Airbus A330s from AirFinance Corporation for the Royal Canadian Air Force’s (RCAF)…

adbr.com.au

Canada Finalizes Acquisition of Strategic Tanker Transport Capability (STTC) Fleet

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Canada moves forward with the acquisition of aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Today, Defence Minister Anita Anand announced that Canada has finalized a contract to acquire the first two aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) that will replace and renew the capability currently fulfilled by the CC-150 Polaris fleet and later become part of the Strategic Tanker...

www.canada.ca

Interesting that the ADBR article says one is to be fitted with a VIP suite, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else. That would make sense as both the UK and Australia already do this but haven't seen anything about it elsewhere.

It does make sense and that brings to three of the FVEY partners operating the A330MRTT with the RAAF and RAF already operating it; although the RAF variant doesn't have the boom (great Pommy foresight that). The French and the European Multinational Multirole Fleet are the other NATO members operating it. In the Indo Pacific it's operated by the Singaporeans and South Koreans.

 

[John Fedup]

One step closer to replacing the RCAF CC-150 Polaris tanker fleet.

Canada buys two Airbus A330s for tanker conversion | ADBR

Canada’s Matériel de défense – SMA (Defence Materiel) administration announced on July 14 that it has acquired two Airbus A330s from AirFinance Corporation for the Royal Canadian Air Force’s (RCAF)…

adbr.com.au

Canada Finalizes Acquisition of Strategic Tanker Transport Capability (STTC) Fleet

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Canada moves forward with the acquisition of aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

Today, Defence Minister Anita Anand announced that Canada has finalized a contract to acquire the first two aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) that will replace and renew the capability currently fulfilled by the CC-150 Polaris fleet and later become part of the Strategic Tanker...

www.canada.ca

Interesting that the ADBR article says one is to be fitted with a VIP suite, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else. That would make sense as both the UK and Australia already do this but haven't seen anything about it elsewhere.

I can recall all the blowback Mulroney got over the VIP suite on the Polaris CC-150. Guessing the Liberals won’t be expressing their outrage over a VIP suite for the MRRT (might whine about only one VIP suite). In any event, an important capability being finally upgraded. Hopefully some P-8 news soon.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

In this article they are telling that Canada plans to get four A330MRTT s.

Canada unveils planned deadline to buy four Airbus tanker aircraft

Airbus was designated as the only supplier qualified to provide the tankers to the Royal Canadian Air Force. As a result, a formal request for its proposal for the planes was issued to the firm on May 13, 2022.

www.defensenews.com

|"The cost of the contract is yet to be determined, but the government has allocated up to CA$5 billion (U.S. $4 billion) to purchase the planes."|
Thats quite high compared to the A330MRTT acquisitions from other countries. Probably the Canadian government will get a huge support package with it, or its just inflation.

 

[John Fedup]

In this article they are telling that Canada plans to get four A330MRTT s.

Canada unveils planned deadline to buy four Airbus tanker aircraft

Airbus was designated as the only supplier qualified to provide the tankers to the Royal Canadian Air Force. As a result, a formal request for its proposal for the planes was issued to the firm on May 13, 2022.

www.defensenews.com

|"The cost of the contract is yet to be determined, but the government has allocated up to CA$5 billion (U.S. $4 billion) to purchase the planes."|
Thats quite high compared to the A330MRTT acquisitions from other countries. Probably the Canadian government will get a huge support package with it, or its just inflation.

Not sure if this amount takes into account the conversion for two used A330s which were acquired earlier. A fleet of 6 MRTTs is a significant upgrade from the Polaris fleet. A support package would very likely be a mandatory requirement.

 

[John Fedup]

Apparently the FWSAR acquisition is seriously behind schedule. It never ceases to amaze me on how Canadianization can delay delivery on a proven product operated by other militaries. I understand we have certain demanding missions that require specific critical modifications but is this really valid for a C-295? Software issues for the instrumentation…WTF? Perhaps more worrisome is the centre of gravity issue.

MPs doubt procurement department claim there are no documents on troubled $2.2-billion aircraft purchase

The government announced in 2016 it was purchasing 16 C-295 aircraft for fixed-wing search and rescue, but the first planes won’t be operating until 2025 or 2026.

ottawacitizen.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Apparently the FWSAR acquisition is seriously behind schedule. It never ceases to amaze me on how Canadianization can delay delivery on a proven product operated by other militaries. I understand we have certain demanding missions that require specific critical modifications but is this really valid for a C-295? Software issues for the instrumentation…WTF? Perhaps more worrisome is the centre of gravity issue.

MPs doubt procurement department claim there are no documents on troubled $2.2-billion aircraft purchase

The government announced in 2016 it was purchasing 16 C-295 aircraft for fixed-wing search and rescue, but the first planes won’t be operating until 2025 or 2026.

ottawacitizen.com

|"A number of issues affecting the planes are linked to modifications made to the fixed wing search-and-rescue (FWSAR) planes for specific Canadian requirements."|
It is indeed remarkable that Canadization of a proven platform can mess up everything, to the point that there are software problems and a change of the center of gravity.

It is actually totally unclear for me why and what is modified in the "Special Canadian Edition" of the C295.

 

[ngatimozart]

It is actually totally unclear for me why and what is modified in the "Special Canadian Edition" of the C295.

Because they are Canadian.

 

[Sender]

I believe the development described here has eliminated one key advantage that the IAI Heron TP had over the MQ-9B, which was more Canadian content, given the engine on the Heron is also supplied by Pratt and Whitney Canada out of Montreal. With the addition of the PT-6E option on the MQ-9B, that advantage is gone, leaving it in much better position to win the RPAS competition. The other engine option on the MQ-9B is the US-built Honeywell TPE331-10. When faced with the choice of a domestic (Pratt and Whitney Canada), or foreign (Honeywell) supplier, there can be no doubt which option the GoC will choose. In this case, it's a no brainer, given the superb pedigree of the PT-6 engines.

RPAS: Remotely piloted aircraft systems - Air procurement initiatives - PSPC Services - PSPC

Heron TP: UNMANNED SYSTEMS - UNMANNED SYSTEMS - Canadian Defence Review | Canadian Defence Review
MQ-9B: Team SkyGuardian

 

[Sender]

|"A number of issues affecting the planes are linked to modifications made to the fixed wing search-and-rescue (FWSAR) planes for specific Canadian requirements."|
It is indeed remarkable that Canadization of a proven platform can mess up everything, to the point that there are software problems and a change of the center of gravity.

It is actually totally unclear for me why and what is modified in the "Special Canadian Edition" of the C295.

According to the following, there were more than 30 modifications to the baseline aircraft, to meet the unique SAR requirements for Canada:

Initial operational capability of Canada’s CC-295 FWSAR aircraft delayed to 2025-26 - Skies Mag

The initial operational capability of Canada's CC-295 Kingfisher SAR aircraft has been delayed from the summer of 2022 to the 2025-2026 timeframe.

skiesmag.com

Here's a good overview of some of the differences from Airbus:

The operating environment for SAR in Canada, arguably, is unique in the world, with operations ranging across 1000s of kilometers, and in extremes of temperature. In order to meet the stringent requirements set out in the RFP, Airbus had to make significant changes to the design. It is disappointing that the IOC and FOC dates have slipped, but hardly surprising.

 

[swerve]

Russia has a similar operating environment. It doesn't have the same vast archipelago stretching as far north, but it has similar temperatures & distances.

 

[Sender]

Russia has a similar operating environment. It doesn't have the same vast archipelago stretching as far north, but it has similar temperatures & distances.

True. I responded as I did because @Sandhi Yudha made the statement "It is actually totally unclear for me why and what is modified in the "Special Canadian Edition" of the C295.". This was simply an attempt to answer that question.

I don't know what platform the Russians use for this role, but presumably it also would have a bunch of specialist equipment to deal with the extreme operating environments. I'm not aware of any aircraft that was designed from the ground up as a SAR mission optimized aircraft, so that mission needs to be added to an existing platform and that requires modifications, which, in the case of the C295, were pretty extensive. Most things built for Canada need to be modified to perform in our environment, which can see temperature extremes from -60C to +45C, and with every form of precipitation imaginable. It's not surprising that such a highly modified platform would have some teething pains.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

True. I responded as I did because @Sandhi Yudha made the statement "It is actually totally unclear for me why and what is modified in the "Special Canadian Edition" of the C295.". This was simply an attempt to answer that question.

I don't know what platform the Russians use for this role, but presumably it also would have a bunch of specialist equipment to deal with the extreme operating environments. I'm not aware of any aircraft that was designed from the ground up as a SAR mission optimized aircraft, so that mission needs to be added to an existing platform and that requires modifications, which, in the case of the C295, were pretty extensive. Most things built for Canada need to be modified to perform in our environment, which can see temperature extremes from -60C to +45C, and with every form of precipitation imaginable. It's not surprising that such a highly modified platform would have some teething pains.

Yes, thank you for your explanation and sharing the links.
The improvements for the CC-295 demands a lot of time and funds, but these efforts will improve the whole C295 platform and can be used for other customers too.