The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Ananda

The Bunker Group
already blockaded by the Russian Navy, So I don't understand this point.
There will be no Nato soldiers in the ground. Ukraine will have to fight on their own. So they are playing defensive on whatever land they can hold, before any negotiation with Russia can be hold.

Holding Odessa will be important on whatever Ukraine (most likely West Ukraine) economics survival in future. Also Russia movement in South shown how Russia want to secure as much as possible if not all Ukraine coasts (because in the eyes of Putin's Kremlin, it is Russian anyway that being given to Ukraine by Lenin). Holding on to Odessa can be more important bargaining chip for Ukraine.

That's why I wrote under present condition Odessa is more important then Kyiv or Kharkiv. Russia already hold 3/4 of Ukraine coasts, holding on to Odessa will be important to Ukraine future. Russia will likely holding on to East and South as much as possible. Again in their eyes, it is theirs not Ukraine. That's one of reason I believe why Putin lately also blame Lenin.
 

Arji

Active Member
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Doesn't Javelin have a direct fire and top fire mode?



SS-11s were also fired at the conning tower of a surfaced sub, causing some damage.
I don't think you can guide a Javelin, as it would just go after the heat signature of the target, and can't really be used to target a particular component of a ship. That guidance mechanism is suited for tank, but not for a ship which has significantly more volume.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
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Doesn't Javelin have a direct fire and top fire mode?
I believe so, but as I understand the system to work, the point of aim would be whatever part of the armoured vehicle is visible, with the missile flying a path slightly above the direct LOS and then essentially diving downward once over the vehicle. This presents a problem if the target was a vessel larger than a smallcraft/FAC, since the height of armoured vehicles are most likely going to be ~3m or less and tanks/IFV's do not tend to bob up and down from wave action. The height above the waterline of the deck by the A position gun on a corvette or OPV-sized vessel like a Project 22160 patrol vessel is likely to be ~9 m or more. This means that unless the Javelin shooter is firing from an elevated position above the targeted vessel, any top-attack mode is unlikely to work, IMO at least.

SS-11s were also fired at the conning tower of a surfaced sub, causing some damage.
Not quite, there were some later model, AS-12's, the air-launched anti-ship version of the missile launched by RN FAA helicopters at the ARA Sante Fe, the ex-WWII USS Catfish of the Balao-class. Out of nine missiles fired, four hit. Of the four hits, only two detonated properly (semi-armour piercing 28 kg warhead) with the other two hits completely penetrating the conning tower of the sub (through and through entry and exiting) before exploding.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I don't think you can guide a Javelin
You certainly can't guide it to specific points on a target but from what I remember from a fast briefing I received on a Javelin simulator many years ago, there is a top and direct attack mode [same with the MBT LAW]. If for instance a target was parked in a building, you can use the direct attack mode.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Another map. Grain of salt, etc.


Kiev.

Battle damage on the western outskirts of Kiev, Sofievskaya Borschagovka,


Photo of Ukrainian territorial defense fighters.


Around Kiev.

Fighting in Irpen', north-west outskirts of Kiev. An unfinished apartment building is getting hit by Russian strikes, allegedly there are Ukrainian fighters holed up inside.


Alleged Russian positions north of Kiev getting hit with an artillery strike.


Gostomel', confirmation that the only flying An-225 is destroyed, presumably by Ukrainian shelling, after the Russian air assault operation took the airfield. Last video also has POW interviews.


Russian troops on the streets of Bucha. There seems to be some dispute over who controls Bucha. From what I can gather, Russia never took full control of the area, and there are still Ukrainian forces in there.


Sky News journalists were fired on near Kiev, allegedly by Ukrainian forces.


The North.

Captain Aleksey Pankratov, commander of a Russian air defense btln, got the Hero of Russian commendation. His unit allegedly shot down 5 Bayraktars, and 1 Su-25. Those numbers look pretty crazy. I also can't help but wonder what kind of unit he serves in. Granted even UAVs require competent operators, but that's a lot to down. The 5 claimed downings do match earlier Russian claims of 5 downed Bayraktar TB2s in the North, Chernigov area, but one issued award based on another inflated report does not a fact make.


A large explosion near Chernigov, allegedly an airstrike. The city itself remains surrounded and is in Ukrainian hands.


Kharkov-Sumy.

Ukrainian T-64BV destroyed near Kharkov, allegedly belonging to the 92nd Mech Bde.


Battle damage in Saltovka, Kharkov suburbs.


Battle damage in Kharkov, explosions in the distance.


Smoke rising, Saltovka, Kharkov. The person filming claims it's a Ukrainian air strike.


More battle damage in Saltovka, the person filming seems to think it was Ukrainian.


Crowds at the Southern train station in Kharkov.


Kharkov, Metrostroiteli house 40, battle damage allegedly caused by Ukrainian forces.


BTR-4 stuck in Kharkov area.


BMP-1P destroyed, Sumy area.


Russian troops in Trostyanets, small town near Akhtyrka.


Russian humanitarian aid, Volchansk, Kharkov area.


Ukrainian refugees entering Russia, Belgorod region.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Zaporozhye-Dnepropetrovsk.

Molotov cocktail training in Zaporozhye.


A destroyed Ukrainian checkpoint near Energodar.


Russian troops continue to enter Energodar. You can see an abandoned Ukrainian armored car in one shot.


Reports of Russian troops patrolling together with Ukrainian police in Energodar.


Reports of land mines on the road from Zaporozhye to Vasil'yevka.


A destroyed BTR-4 in Melitopol'. This likely took place some time ago.


Russian troops in Melitopol'.


Russian humanitarian aid in Melitopol'. Large crowds, no signs of hostility.


Kherson-Nikolaev-Odessa.

Battle damage, Ochakov, a Russian strike against Ukrainian storage facilities.


Russian troops in Kherson.


A number of locals came out with Ukrainian flags to protest, at the arrival of Russian humanitarian aid in Kherson. You can see relatively few locals taking the aid, this likely has to do with the swift fall of Kherson, it didn't really get cut off for a significant length of time.


Reports of Russian TV channels beginning broadcasting in Kherson and Melitopol'.


Fragment of an MLRS lands in Balabanovka, near Nikolaev.


A BTR-80 destroyed in Bolgarka village, Nikolaev region, allegedly Ukrainian.


A missile strike hit a military housing complex in Nikolaev.


A group of Ukrainian fighters(?) towing a mortar on a civilian motorcycle near Nikolaev. They could be territorial defense fighters. They could also be locals that just looted a mortar. It's unclear.


Nikolaev, angry locals telling territorial defense fighters to not set up their barricades near their houses, and instead telling them to set it up by their own homes.


Gunfire heard near Odessa.


At Velikodolinsk, west of Odessa, a satellite comms complex got hit.


Ukrainian military forces in Odessa.


A train station in Odessa.


Tank traps in Odessa.


Mariupol'.

Rebel artillery firing near Mariupol'.


Rebel troops at the entrance to Mariupol'.


Russian helos near Mariupol'.


A Ukrainian BMP burning in Volnovakha.


Full video where the above screenshot is from. It's Sparta Recon Btln, DNR, in Volnovakha. You can see the UAV operator walking right behind the commander, ready to provide a top down view. The dispersal and infantry movement also looks better then those videos from Kharkov.


Ukrainian T-64 captured in Volnovakha.


Ukrainian land mines and munitions captured near Mariupol', allegedly the site was being used by Right Sector.


LDNR forces enter Granitnoe.


Civilians managed to escape Mariupol' and describe chaos and battle damage. They also report that Ukrainian forces shot up their suburb.


Rebel forces handing out bread in Talakovka, near Mariupol'.


LDNR Front.

Allegedly footage of Russia's Orion-S UAV in action.


Video from an alleged Ukrainian service member from the 53 Mech Bde, who claims they were set up by incompetent command and throw with rifles against tanks, and then abandoned.


Allegedly near Schastye, Ukrainian 79th Para-Assault Bde abandoned 4 T-64BVs. Rebels marked it with a Z after capture. The video claims this is the tenth they've found.


More footage of the abandoned Ukrainian tanks at Avdeevka.


A Russian Su-25 went down near Donetsk.


Unconfirmed reports of Ukrainian troops laying explosives and land mines as they retreat. One MChS service member was killed clearing mines, and two wounded. Interesting question, whose MChS are they talking about?


A Javelin captured by the rebels.


Munitions captured by LNR forces.


The West.

A bridge from Ukraine to Transnestria was blown up.


A train from Kharkov to L'vov, completely packed.


POWs.

Allegedly Ukrainian POWs captured at Gostomel'.


A Ukrainian POW, LNR area. He claims their command abandoned them, and they tried to go out from the woods but came upon a rebel ?? (комендатура - is technically the military authority in a city, but it's unlikely they came out from the woods onto that, presumably he means a rebel patrol).


Misc.

Russian Mi-24P.


Another alleged downed Russian Su-25. Circumstances unclear.


More footage out of Moldova claiming that Ukrainian refugees littered all along the side of the road and defaced another WWII monument.


Chechen Russian National Guard in Ukraine, location unclear.


A Russian National Guard troop column, location unknown. Based on the police presence, I suspect this is still inside Russia.


A Ukrainian transporter-loader for the BM-27, destroyed, location unknown.


A Ukrainian T-64BV mod'17 captured, location unknown.


It appears Russia is using E95M practice target drones to get Ukrainian air defense to open fire.

 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Wonder if it was the Strelas that contributed to this headline
Germany, not maintaining military equipment well? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. :rolleyes:
I can confirm that this is about the Strelas.

The Strelas were taken over from East Germany in 1991 and used by the Bundeswehr until 2003 (alongside Stinger and Igla). They were retired and stored when Army Air Defense units were disbanded in 2003.

In 2012 microfractures were discovered in the rocket motors of some of the missiles and the stock was barred from use as a safety measure. The microfractures apparently lead to oxidization/corrosion (in other words: there may be rust), but further examination at the time by a weapons R&D center found the missiles continue to be safe to store and transport.

The crates aren't rotten, they're simply covered in mold because no one has touched them in ten years and since it's a stock that was pending disposal no one cared. The mold does not affect functionality of the missiles, it was if at all considered a concern with regard to the state of the bunkers the missiles were stored in at the depot.

Officially there are 2500 missiles stored. No idea where they'd get the other 200 from, or whether e.g. those are the ones already disposed of due to the microfractures.

The condition of the missiles is publicly known since after it was found out that LARS 110mm rockets used as training ammunition in MARS launchers was declared unsafe to transport there were official requests for information in January as to the safety of stored other rocket types at Bundeswehr depots. The answer included the state that the Strelas are in (the others reported on were DUERAS chaff rockets and DM59 mineclearing rockets).
 
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Capt. Ironpants

Active Member
Russians have announced a ceasefire and opening of humanitarian corridors so civilians can leave Mariupol and Volnovakha. The Ukrainian side has reportedly agreed on the routes:


Edited to add: @Feanor Thank you another excellent report. Much appreciated!

US and UK major news outlets news are reporting the Sky News crew were shot at by ... you guessed it .... those ever-present Russian sabateurs! Because ... well, because ... the Ukrainian police who rescued them told them so! I had an open mind about who did it judging by just headlines, but after reading the story as told by the journalists .... ahem:


Maybe you can tell from their description of the area and road taken who it likely was. The best I could tell, they were in Ukrainian-controlled territory when shot. And how about those johnny-on-the-spot Ukrainian police?
 
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JGCAC

New Member
I would think Russia would be pushing to evacuate as many civilians as possible as that would make operations easier and reduce the PR problems. If I were them, I would be providing my own trains from RZD 24/7 to get the locals out. Would also make the areas easier to administer after the war.
 
Ukrainian media reported the death of Denis Kireev, the negotiator from Ukraine at the first meeting in Gomel. He was was killed while being detained by the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine).
Дениса Кірєєва вбили - при затриманні СБУ вбито члена делегації України - хто він і що відомо (obozrevatel.com)



Denis Kireev, a member of the first Gomel delegation of Ukraine, was killed.

According to OBOZREVATEL with reference to his own sources, he was suspected of high treason.

According to preliminary information, the Ukrainian negotiator at the first meeting in Gomel was killed while being detained by the SBU.

It should be noted that the information about Kireev's death was also disseminated by the people's deputy Oleksandr Dubinsky.
Убит Денис Киреев: его застрелили при задержании СБУ по подозрению в госизмене (hvylya.net)
 
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phreeky

Active Member
US and UK major news outlets news are reporting the Sky News crew were shot at by ... you guessed it .... those ever-present Russian sabateurs! Because ... well, because ... the Ukrainian police who rescued them told them so! I had an open mind about who did it judging by just headlines, but after reading the story as told by the journalists .... ahem:


Maybe you can tell from their description of the area and road taken who it likely was. The best I could tell, they were in Ukrainian-controlled territory when shot. And how about those johnny-on-the-spot Ukrainian police?
I really don't see how you can have any idea of who is was firing at them from any of that information. It could've been either side, and drawing a conclusion like Feaner and yourself have makes me have significant doubt in the validity of some of the information being posted here.

In my mind if you don't know who, you don't say who. Keep it factual.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
The Strelas were taken over from East Germany in 1991 and used by the Bundeswehr until 2003 (alongside Stinger and Igla). They were retired and stored when Army Air Defense units were disbanded in 2003.
I just amazed that missiles manufactured prior to 1991 and stored for so long are still operable. I was under the impression that most missiles; even if stored in the right conditions; don't last more than 10 or so years; before their batteries and propellent expire. Unless of course they are sent back to the OEM to be worked on.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
don't last more than 10 or so years; before their batteries and propellent expire.
With regard to propellant they'll probably just run the missiles through an ultrasound to check for microfractures and oxidization before handing them over.
The German launch units - and batteries - were supposedly already disposed of a couple years ago. Ukraine however uses the same model. It's mostly the batteries that do tend to expire on older Strelas - in Syria insurgents just jury-rigged new power sources.
 

DefensiveDave

New Member
I am surprised of the talk about Putin needing a way out of this to save face.

Remember Putin insisting this is a military operation and not a war. Therefore at ANY time he could declare the mission a 'success' and pull his soldiers back as fast as they had initially attacked. He could then of course point the finger at the West for creating unnecessary sanctions for what was only ever an operation to save Russia from the Nazi oppression of Russian people. This is absolutely not beyond the realms of happening.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I am surprised of the talk about Putin needing a way out of this to save face.
What is so surprising? If things go terribly wrong for him, it is desired that he has a way out, as opposed to.finding himself trapped. If he finds himself trapped, there's no knowing what he might do, especially if he feels his personal position is at risk.

Therefore at ANY time he could declare the mission a 'success' .
Time and time again he's said that he seeks a new government in Kiev. Pulling back without achieving that would be an admission of failure and would further damage his standing at home. Doing that would also mean that the invasion was for nothing.

 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
could've been either side, and drawing a conclusion like Feaner and yourself have makes me have significant doubt in the validity of some of the information being posted here.
Like the information on Western media and Online sites that put everything only based on Ukraine side information as gold information. At least in here we try to see which is more plausible.
 

GermanHerman

Active Member
I really don't see how you can have any idea of who is was firing at them from any of that information. It could've been either side, and drawing a conclusion like Feaner and yourself have makes me have significant doubt in the validity of some of the information being posted here.

In my mind if you don't know who, you don't say who. Keep it factual.
I think you need to pay more attention when reading before you question people and call them unreliable.

Feanor does label unconfirmed information as "alleged".

As for the shooting in question the location does suggest it to be ukrainian forces as the news crew where traveling towards ukrainian territory when it got Shot from ahead.

This alone does not confirm anything but it is a strong indication who propably did it, especially given how many incidents like that have happened already.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
This seems to be a Russian attack helicopter being taken down by the Ukrainians. Can someone confirm this?

The video footage is from a very high quality, not taken with a mobile phone, CCTV or something, but it looks like its taken with a professional camera on a tripod.

 
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Terrain is flat
This seems to be a Russian attack helicopter being taken down by the Ukrainians. Can someone confirm this?

The video footage is from a very high quality, not taken with a mobile phone, CCTV or something, but it looks like its taken with a professional camera on a tripod.

The visible terrain is flat. As we can see, the camera is placed many meters above the ground, so the film must have been shot from the air.
 
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